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Well, I decided to look into the new car more that I got from a member on here. there was a trunk floor repair that left a little to be desired. I tried using flux cored mig welding and didnt have much luck, so yesterday I got a tank and some gas @ $200 (ouch) and I was doing some survey work on the front trunk. Let me say I was way too excited to get my car and I looked underneath and saw a couple of rust throughts on the passenger side near the rear but the "longs" where I spent most of my 5 minutes looking was solid. and I though no big deal just a couple of pan spots. and under the new battery tray looked solid from the engine compartment. well under the battery tray "hell hole" was described as" not perfect". there is a piece of metal screwed over the bad stuff. making it appear solid. Then the big suprise, there has been por15 used on the motor mount I thought it looked real rough and when i pushed on it with my finger oops a hole. some poking with a screw driver resulted in the hole you see. the I looked further back at the arm that goes to the rear suspension and it is also por15 with a odd look . more poking and you guessed it a hole. I guess some one thinks por15 is structural. NOT,,, Well I dont mind documenting this because I will fix it right. but hopefully my eagerness to finally get my 914 will make someone else take a second look at the car they are looking at. Mine look great in photo's and even pretty good in person. but it had a dark secret. Now the Real question on the motor mount and (trailing arm mount?) guess that's what its called. what should I paint the back of the metal with and what gauge should I use, should I make drain holes so It wont hold water in the future? Im gonna try to do all this welding with the motor in the car. I fear I will never get the car back together if I take out the motor. Thanks for all your input. Wayne

here some more pics... And check out the "All metal" slope nose. there are more screws holding it on than welds. and the back of the metal used isn't even primed.. give me a break and check out the round light on the side "shaved" workmanship

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here is more

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What year is your car?

The color should have been a clue of what you were getting yourself into.
Lemon Yellow

Btw., i wouldn't even think about fixing this with the engine in the car. It's sooooo much easier to work in there with the engine out.

Plus, seeing those pictures, you're gonna find more rust. Trust me, it's there. Look for it ...
Andy

Its a 74 one year older than me. yep lemon yellow

My fear is I wont ever get her back together if I pull the engine, I "recently" took over a year for me to put in a timing belt, water pump , tensioner, and a couple of gaskets in my Audi TT. I just got it going this weekend so I could pull the porsche in the garage because its been so rainy here and it has been under a car cover

In that case those are the wrong outer motor mounts anyways.
What you have are mounts for a tailshifter and you should have a sideshifter in that car ...

Andy

how can I tell what trans I have

You need to move back and manualy focus your camera. Maybe it needs to be on macro. Those are pretty bad spots. There will be more I'm sure that you haven't found. That will not be a few simple welding jobs in the evening. I'm afraid by the way you are communicating your skills this is way beyond what you can accompolish. Do you have any sheetmetal working tools? There is no way you are going to work in the engine compartment and do a reasonable job with the motor in there.

Tools you will need:
face shield and gloves, fire extinguisher
4 inch electric grinder with grinding wheels and sanding disks and some cup shaped wirewheels
electric shear, or cutoff wheel air tool, tin snips, compressor? I don't use one but maybe a sawzall will help
at least a ballpeen hammer
6r and 11r visegrip clamps, not hf for the clamps, maybe some other tools but not the visegrip clamps
chipping hammer for the flux removal
I would consider these tools bare essentials for a beginner.

Some of the sheetmetal is about 17 ga. the motormount is thicker but you will not be fabbing that you will need another one.

That rust needs to be sand blasted to properly get most of it out. Sand gets everywhere. It will ruin glass. The car really needs to completely be disassembled to do the blasting.

Check it out real close and think about it before you start and decide it's more than you can deal with.

Where does the linkage go into the transmission? Through the end cover, or into the side of the trans case? The former is a tailshifter, the latter a sideshifter.

--DD

Thanks for the input, tools are not the problem. I have a 80 gallon compressor, yep it as tall as me (and bigger around) thank god.impacts , about every air tool 3 grinders so I dont have to switch out different blades. at least 3 drills and many wire brushes. plenty of safety gear. yep I have 2 sawsalls. I also have a small snap on air saw that will do fine cutting. a real nice Lincoln 175hd 220 volt welder. just got the gas, I have always used flux cored before. I have cut down & welded steel flatbeds. and made from scratch 3 snow plow mounts. this is just my first time working with "sheet" metal. like anything you have to just do it, to get decent. I was just looking for input as should I go thicker on the metal around the engine mount. I do have a small metal brake. as far as other metal forming tools I have helped a buddy make a fender patch with a leather bag of sand. it took some time.. I am defiantly thinking of pulling the engine. I got in there to cut out most of it and it wasn't too bad. I just know if I pull the engine I will want to go through it even it was just rebuilt within the last 1000 miles. and I would rather do that this winter. I actually want to drive this thing a a fair amount this summer. then this winter completly tear it down and go through it . for now I just want to make solid repairs

Well I have been busy here is the good and the bad , I tore off the prevoius owners patch that just covered over the problem. Again not even primed on the back. took out the battery tray. and remover the repair over the bad on the engine shelf. guess what the top side of the long was rusted alot. I cut a rough hole in the rusty top to find the only good news of the night it sides and bottom of the long are all very solid. So at least I have that going for me. I agree it is a pain to be bent over in that odd position , but there seems to be room to do the welding. . but I have replaced the head gaskets and installed Time Serts in a newer Cadillac Northstar without pulling the motor. so I know what tight is believe me. I looked at pelican on their engine drop and it doesn't seem to bad. but it would kill me not to fix the couple of small oill leaks it has and other misc before putting it back in. Who knows I'm gonna sleep on it and decide tommorrow evening what to do

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by the way looks like side shift linkage on drivers side just behind the cv axle. Please direct me to the correct mount I need. help finding parts is Always Appreciated, I alread got one order from pelican this week anyways.

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picture taken from rear of car

couple of better pics

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Mine was yellow,...........once

For a side-shift car, your motor mount bar should be a cast piece with some curves to it, and a large hole that the shift linkage passes through. There should be rubber mounts inboard, between the bar and the brackets bolted to the case. The outboard mounts should be solid--pretty much pieces of U channel that fit across the mount pod on the body.

--DD

If you haven't dropped engine yet and aren't in a huge hurry, I'll be happy to lend a hand. My schedule is completely booked up until May 18, but after that I have more availability. It would be nice to have another teener that can show up to local PCA events!

If your engine mount is rusted out, you are going to find MANY more problems inside the long. it may well be rusting from the inside out.

Be POSITIVE that the DAPO did not just put a clam shell over the outer long (over the rust). I have seen 2 rust bucket cars with longs that looked great due to a clam shell welded over the rusted out long.

I would not put more money into this car until you know how bad the damage is. You may find yourself well ahead (both time and money) if you just use this car as a parts car and move the good stuff over to a known solid tub.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer.
Zach

Thanks for the offer mudfoot. i looked at your sig, I just got rid of a 02 Mini Cooper last weekend. I have a Audi TT also So if you have one as well we must be living in a parallel universe. Any ways I hope it be well on my way with the repair by then. but the offer is much appreciated. I sometimes have the lack of motivation virus. I have really inspected poke and prodded the longs. they are very solid. I think the top section became more rusty due to the fact of a piece of metal being welded over the rust before. trapping moisture. if it had been cut out and replaced I dont think it would have even got as far as it did, but a 10" X 2.5"section only on the top. isn't going to scare me into a new tub. nor the hole in the inner fender . it just gonna take time and patience. as far as the motor mount Again I think the por15 over the old rust did more harm than good. Its just metal it can always be welded back. I plan on taking a ton of pictures. tonight I'm going to clean up all my rough cuts and hopefully make templates. then Friday cut some metal from the templates. Then this weekend a close friend is gonna help and he has done a ton of sheet metal rust repair & welding on a totally rotted Chevy truck (cab corners, door sills, & complete floor). so Ill have a more experienced welding eye behind me.

That's a heartbreak and a totally misrepresented car if someone said it was solid. The rust is severe and because of it being in the places it is, the cancer is pretty bad. So like others have said, you need to decide... DO you save it or cut it.

I'm gonna save her, i got all the bad out on the Hell hole and long and top of the motor mount. its all squared off. and it needs a little more finesse, then I can make my templates. I have been a little lazy to post pics.

It's good you're motivated to save her. There are alot of other things though that you could also consider diving into though to really make the car nice again. Dropping the engine with 2 jacks and the wheels off isn't hard at all (pelicanparts has the how to article). Then you could start doing stuff like getting the engine tin and other parts powder coated all nice. Get all the bolts and hardware zinc plated. Make room so you can really go to town attacking one rust area after another. You have alot of welding ahead of you to make that car right. MIG welder with variable wire speed and variable voltage, at the low settings, is really the only way to go. I did some hell hole repairs, and suspension console replacement on mine. Then I rebuilt all the suspension (all the original rubber bushings will be compressed and shot). Got some rebuilt brake calipers from Eric Shay- you don't want to be driving with 35 year old brakes. 5 lug upgrade parts from various world members. Now I have a solid car and completely rebuilt suspension. Popped the original engine back in with 115k miles and the car runs great as my daily driver. Haven't done paint yet... but I'll get to it. I've put about $4500 into it and spent about 9 months doing it at a pretty leasurely pace. Could've done it a little cheaper if I wasn't replacing mirrors, glass, various details here and there and ofcourse the 5 lug upgrade. But it's worth it.

Judging by your rust situation, you're going to want to examine the suspension console ears, longitudinals behind the rocker panels, jack points, interior floor boards (scrapping out the tar), seat mount brackets, clutch tube firewall bracket, ect. Like some other members said... your rust situation looks heavy. Good rule of thumb is that for every bit of rust you can see... there's 60% more hidden under the paint extending out from what you see. Getting the car apart is the only way to truly evaluate what you're up against and decide if you should shop for a rust free tub instead. Your car probably has nice parts... use them on a solid tub!

Here's a portion of my project: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...54896&st=40

If I was doing it again... I would pay to get the whole thing walnut shell blasted and start fresh. And I wouldn't mess with a tub that's much rustier than mine was.

Soda blast it rather then walnut shells, much less damage... glad you are saving it, you should see the state of mine and I am saving it...

When a unibody car has a lot of rust that is obvious there is always going to be rust in places you can't imagine. Inside the lower targabar, inside the rear quarters, inside the tops of the front fenders, on the backside of the door hinge pillars, around the door catch inside bracket, up around the door jamb vent, inside the doublewall firewall, on the inside bottom of the doors, there are so many places that are not obvious that are always rusty. Also just because new metal is put in place of the obvious spots the heat from the welding means that unless both sides are treated and sealed it will be back and won't take as long as it originally did as this time the metal was heated way more than the first time it was spot welded together and both side of the metal was coated. Actually a rust free tub may be a impossibility but one that requires singlewall repairs where both sides can be treated is a far better restore than building a complete tub.

Well I have decided to go the easier route and drop the engine.You guys are right, maybe someone has travled this path already. Ive almost got it out except I didnt have the spline drive needed to get the cv axles out. my engine mount is too far gone to save that is the reason for engine removal. I feel I could have fixed the hell hole with the engine in there. but all I have left are the cv axles and remove the carbs. and I only have a little over a hour in the removal so far. And I'm going to fix the oil leaks. and paint the tins as suggested. and make her nice. here are a couple of shots or the removed rusty areas. and check out what I dug out of my toolbox from like 8 years ago. it is a small sandblaster that recirculates the sand so very little mess. it only does about a nickle size spot at a time. spray for about 2-3 seconds then move on. it will help me get all the tiny rust out without making a huge mess. and it cant be worse than scraping out the tar which will come later. My old project, The chopper in the corner feels lonely. Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

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Progress .. Well after the girlfriend got her newto her car the Porsche got banished from the garage.. and she sat under the car cover... recently a friend has been helping me and we have been working on the car 3-4 hours at a time a couple night a week, man it takes a while... finished getting the motor out.. removed the motor mount and guess what it was pretty flimsy under there, so we cut it out and made up some new metal doing a double layer just like the factory did.. got the mount back in and made a inner fender piece, that was a chore, turned out decent and it is totally strong. now just some more repair on the pan in between the firewall and the inner passenger compartment that 2" strip across the car . it too has some rot.. then I need to finish welding up what the PO had tried to replace .. which is only spot welded in a couple of spots...

what was left of the motor mount pics

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oops a little big lets try this

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with the inner fender well in Click to view attachment
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The girlfriends car that kicked the Porsche out of the way temporally Click to view attachment

Feels like I'm making some real progress. What do you guys think? Trying to keep my motivation up. I'm also looking for some input. Since I have the engine out I'm going to do a texture/ undercoat , should I go back to yellow in the compartment , Since it has the slope nose it obviously not a factory true "restoration" , but would it put people off if I ever go to sell (I Doubt I ever will) it if I leave it black like the PO has already painted? which also means the front trunk area, and the interior tub.....

I'd go with yellow. In my experience, brighter colors make the engine bay look cleaner.
Andy

In my experience, lighter colors show the dirt a lot more than darker ones. Maybe grey or silver wouldn't, but yellow does.

Light colors really throw the light around, making it easier to see stuff.

--DD

Wayne, is that the car that was in the classifieds here at the beginning of summer? If it was he said he just restored it(wtf). I passed on that car at the last minute. Repairs would have been beyond my abilities. Good thing for me on my last minute decision. Good luck with the repair.

I almost contacted the seller about that car too. Glad to see your fixing it. Keep up the good work

WTF indeed,,,, Yep I bought it off a member on here this summer... he got rid of it when he got his 5K 911... It was fairly close to me and I got all excited,, and had looked at some of his "rebuild" pictures on here and his paint how to's... Talked to him a few times,,, and had convinced myself I was going to get a 914. I met him halfway and literally took less than 10 minutes looking at it.. my mistake... but there is no going back in time and it is what it is. Ill eventually get her going again and the car will be solid then. I am thinking about getting another one that is more factory without the slope nose. or another crazy idea is to graft back on the fender fronts... havent decided. At first I really liked the slope nose. Now I envy the factory style... Since we already have 8 vehicles whats one more right? Actually the problem is the garage or lack there of... Thanks for the coments it hopefully will keep me motivated at the task at hand

Keep going, mine is/was bad and I am still with it, it will be worth it in the end.


Roman

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Your car is looking great, man.

You will have a solid car ready for 35 more years when you get it done.

Keep the pictures coming, its great for everyone's motivation.

John

Finally got some more work done with a buddy helping out. These are some pics of the rear pan area and lower firewall and the engine shelf. Just a bit more and she will b ready to put back together keep the comments comming. Sorry for the duplicate pic I did the whole uPdate on my blackberry and I am still figuring it out

You are a true Hoosier... my Mom is from Indy....keep up the good work!

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Well I'm waiting on engine parts So I fugured I would do a bit more on the chassis I scraped the tar sound proofing off the floor board here are some pics and of course I uncovered a couple of pin holes towards the firewall on the passanger side. I'm gonna run a metal fuel line through the tunnel, any thing else I should run while I'm in there ? Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

I ran a metal fuel line through the tunnel but I encased it in shrink wrap to protect it. I have always wondered why Porsche did the lines in plastic. Then one day I thought, what if the wiring in the tunnel becomes damaged. Well, it can't arch on the fuel line. Maybe it's but it worked for me.

OH NO,,, There is more welding in my future... Well me and my buddy was going to fix a couple of the small holes I found in the floorboard when I removed the sound proofing, and weld up a couple of gaps under the head light I saw a while ago when we uncovered another mess,,, there has been 3 pieces of metal patched together poorly and barley spot welded.. making up the inner fenderwell... Then covered up with the oh mighty bondo... I cant believe it held up in the wheel well... some of it was pretty thick. Oh well I just gotta laugh at this point , And on top of that the heads I bought off of a guy on another website that were suppose to be 1.8 .... Yep you guessed it they were 1.7 with a 100mm bore for the cylinder jugs.. So they wont work without machine work... Man I am having the worst luck with this car... What is it they say, what doesnt kill you makes you stronger. Well all I have to say is I better have this car till the day I die. There is so much blood, sweat, and almost tears into her . here some pics of mess Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

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