Edit: This thread started out with my question below but quickly changed to a debate about whether or not any 914s ever came from the factory with radios. Lots of cool pics at least! But since I have a vested interest in my original question I'm going to take it elsewhere and let this thread continue down the path of the "radios debate". Even gave it a new title to draw more members with interest in that topic.

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Ok so this post probably belongs in the originality forum but I need to figure this out asap and answers come slooooooow over there...so, sorry Pat.

My /6 came from the factory with a Frankfurt. The radio that's in there now (Sapphire, see below), while period correct, doesn't match the COA so I'm going to replace it while I tackle the dash replacement. The plate around the Sapphire is a plastic, attached piece and after doing some searching here and elsewhere I'm pretty sure it's actually part of the stereo and not part of the car.

So my question is ~ what's gonna be correct? Judging from pics I've dug up and and based on my '74, I'm guessing it's just that little metal plate/surround piece covered in basketweave material. Can anyone here speak to this?

thanks!

Reid

(sorry for blurry pic)

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That plate is exactly like the one I pulled out of the 76 I just whacked....

it's identical to the Sapphire in my ,73 as well. And yes, that chromed plastic surround is part of the stereo not the car

Yeah, most of them are a steel 18g plate that has basketweave attached to it.

It's actually the whole plate (plastic), not just the chrome part.


Mark, do you know if that's true coming from the factory? I'm 99% certain at this point, but that last 1% is giving me fits.

Thanks

back in the days there was an original Blaupunkt radio installation kit available
it included the correct face plate, all brackets, cable, speakers and what else you would need to install the radio
I've seen a NOS kit for sale last year, but the asking price was just hilarious (somewhat around US$ 300)

see here a correct Blaupunkt Frankfurt, installed in a 914-6

Well, I just looked.... my /6 has the same crappy Sapphire AM/FM.....

found some photos from the original Blaupunkt installation kit

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ah, I though you were just referring to the dial/button surround. The actual plate that the radio mounts in (which gets covered with the squareweave for your year) is metal on both of my cars. But mine are '73 and '76 - not sure if the early ones were plastic.

Every plate I've seen has been steel with a vinyl covering. I've never, in my 36 years of working on 914s, ever seen a factory installed radio in one.

The Cap'n

Great pics Wolfgang, thanks. The closeup of the radio is just what I've been looking for. That install kit is still available, but it's $500!!

Good input Cap'n, sounds like I need a plastic plate to fit the Frankfurt.

Thanks all!

Reid

I think what he meant is that there are no factory installed radios.


The radios were dealer installed and it was up to the dealer on how to install them.
Andy

Not according to my COA. There definitely were factory installed radios, I've come across that in my research many times!

Wolfgang has the facts/opt codes, I know...

Just to dispel the idea that I'm making this stuff up, I grabbed one of my books. Rich Johnson's 914 and 914-6 A Restorer's Guide to Authenticity, p. 66:

..and then, in the chart for '71:



...which is exactly what my COA says. I'm convinced.

Reid

Yes, there were factory "options" for different radios, but the actual *install* was done by the dealer, not the factory.
Andy

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And according to all the books, a Heated AND Tinted Rear Window never existed, but I have one, so don't believe every myth that comes down the road.

T.C.

The COA tells you what your car was ordered with, not how it left the factory ...

It's a marketing tool, not a assembly line checklist.
Andy

sorry Andy, but that's not correct

every option, that had a "M-Oprion Code" was installed by the factory

other additional equipment (like ski racks, snow chains, suit case set, ...) that had order codes like 914.801.901.00 (that's the ski rack) was not factory installed
when you picked up your 914 at the factory then they gave it to you,
when you picked up your 914 at the dealer then it was "dealer installed" (if possible)

of course there was the possibility, that a dealer beefed up a new 914 with a dealer installed radio (for example when the customer wanted another radio than possible from the factory), but there was also the possibility that the car came with a factory installed radio, which is shown on the COA

a dealer installed radio is NEVER on a COA

the COA represents the configuration when the car left the assembly line at the factory - they had "configuration cards for every car they built

just think about this: do you really think that the factory corrects this cards after the car was sold ?? that means, that they had so search for some very old cards to insert new infos, when the car sold 6 months after it left factory
and to some markets it took pretty long to get the cars shipped to and then they needed to sell them (thinking of the USA, Japan and others)

Gustl

might be correct for today

but the infos on the COA come from microfishes form the old production cards
and these cards represent the configuration from the car leaving the assembly line - not as a check list, but as a "to do list"

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If you look, my COA is an older one (when they cared and actually got things right), not one of the newer pieces of rubbish. Signed by Fred Scwab - he's been gone quite awhile.

I'm pretty sure that my car left the Factory with Paint, a Leather Steering Wheel, Light Alloy Wheels and a Radio

Rear windows were never tinted! Heated or unheated.

I agree with What the capt'n said about the Face plates..... until a month ago I parted an early 73 2.0 and the face plate is solid plastic with the basket weave pattern that exactly maches the vinly. It does not have the same opening as 914sixers though. It has what I call the din style opening basicly the same as the radio hole in the dash. So is this peice porsche or blaupunkt?? or aftermarket?

For what it's worth, both the original window sticker and 15 year old COA for my 1970 914-6 show the Frankfurt radio.

I don't have a copy of the COA with me, but here is a scan of the original window sticker.

Then I must have the only one in existence

T.C.

not really - a friend of mine has one on the shelf
I was always wondering about this one - tinted and heated - and everyone knew that it shouldn't exist

so - it's good to know that you also have one

Thanks for that Wolfgang. I feel there is sufficient evidence to support the notion that some cars did in fact come from the factory with a stereo. And actually, I have yet to see any evidence that this isn't true.


Let's bring this back around to the original topic ~ what surrounds the Frankfurt in your six? Is it a plastic plate, or is it basketweave vinyl over (presumably) steel?

Thanks!

Show me one car with a nice, clean antenna hole and not one that looks like it was hacked into the fender by a 3 year old.
Andy

Andy, check the old marketing brochures and magazine ads
every 2nd car has the antenna on the driver's side front fender and some interior shots show various radios
I'm absolutely sure that these cars had factory installed radios - not dealer installed


and btw - here's another one with factory installed radio and antenna (it was not sold via dealership)

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Gustl

Needs wheel spacers in the front!
Andy

That's the "evidence" that has you convinced that these other documents/resources are incorrect?

Just show me one ...

If that's enough for you to draw your conclusions from Andy, right on. Me, I'm inclined to believe the other empirical evidence to the contrary that we've seen here. Let's agree to let the other rational folks out there do the same. Thanks for your input though, I'll definitely pay closer attention to the antennae hole in the future!

Back to this radio plate question. Hopefully there will be some examples posted for reference.

Plastic? Vinyl on steel?

What antenna hole????

Oh, look at all those factory 914s leaving the Karmann lot. Without an antenna. Or a hole to mount one.


Yes, i can see you did a lot of "research" on the subject ...
Andy

PS: I have a whole stash of images from the factory assembly line as well as factory showcars. Not one car has an antenna or a hole to mount one.

Andy, why so wrapped up in whether or not I believe you? Like I said there've been arguments made for both sides. I'm a rational guy, I've done my own research, I've seen what others have to say, and I've come to my own conclusion. Others will do the same. Why do you feel your opinion must be "right"?

That's a rhetorical question of course. What I'm actually interested in is the plate surrounding Blaupunkt Frankfurt stereos in factory sixes.

Again, Andy, thanks for the input. I'd appreciate it though if you'd let this get back on topic.

Reid

on this photo you won't see an antenna even if 9 from 10 cars would have it

What i feel is that a lot of people around here are way too fast in accepting gossip for truth.
Andy

I know.

I have another one of the Karmann lot that gives you a much better view of the cars, but i agreed not to share that picture. (Along with a whole batch of others from Karmann)

None of them has an antenna.
Andy

Now that Karman is bankrupt, it'll be ok to share. Anyway, the 70 six I bought new from Forest Lane Porsche in Dallas had the radio in the car and on the window sticker...I don't know how it got in the car or on the sticker. Wish I still had the car. Bill

as I told you before ... check all the marketing brochures and magazine ads
there are lots of cars showing the antenna - and some interior shots showing radios

and don't tell me they used cars from any dealership to make factory photos


here're just a couple of examples - there are lots more:







Gustl

@ Reid

sorry for going deep OT

A lot of the marketing cars were "dressed up" for the photo shoot. And there's just as many without antenna. So, what does that prove then?


Somebody must have drilled that hole for the antenna into that nice, fresh paint at some point. None of the assembly line pictures i have shows an antenna hole.

If that was in fact a factory job, then why do all antenna holes look like they've been cut by hand with a hacksaw?
Andy

PS: Here's a "marketing" display. Note the lack of an antenna.

Andy, I can't play this game for a longer time, because I have to go to sleep (remember the time gap)
but here's some additional stuff ...

a lot means not all - and where's your prove that all the antennas in the brochures and ads are just "dressed up"

and what does this photo prove ??

just that this one 914-6 didn't have an antenna ...

Yes.

here are some photos from the Karman factory - note the antennas

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Back to this again? Man I'll start a different thread about face plates, this has too much momentum to try to stop at this point!

Don't forget Andy, your point is that no cars left the factory with a stereo. You haven't presented any evidence to support that claim - showing two cars w/o antennaes only supports that some cars left the factory without antennaes.

Nobody is disputing that.

Wolfgang (and myself to a far lesser extent) have provided plenty of evidence to support the notion that some cars did leave the factory with radios. None of us were there as eyewitnesses - all we can do is draw conclusions from what documented evidence exists. Scientific method and all that.

Lend credibility to your argument by showing us something that suggests what you're saying is true, otherwise it's your argument that's "gossip" (to use your term).

And hey, no personal attacks...totally unnecessary. I consider myself a student of 914s - I have zero interest in being "right", I just want to learn what is. If what you're saying is true and you can prove it, I will be grateful for the information.

Reid

at the 1973 Paris Motor Show

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at the 1974 Paris Motor Show

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Thanks for those pics, all of which go nicely with what i said earlier.
"Dressed up" for the photo shoot.

Of course you'd want to show all the options in a staged marketing brochure or a auto show.
Just look at all those pretty paint jobs!
Andy

Man, I was about to start the bidding for mine at $50k.

No Offense Andy, but your argument about the radios is off track. You've been presented evidence, but you won't concede. You don't present any evidence to your side, but refuse to give in. . Next time I'm in Orlando I will take a picture of my antenna hole for you. I will even take a picture of my other 914-6 that has an antenna in the right location ( doesn't look like a hack job), but I don't have a COA on that car yet. Not that it matters as it will be a Marathon Re-Creation car.

T.C.