74 2.0 dual weber carbs, fuel pump running, fuel in the lines, pertronix ignition, don't seem to be getting a spsark. disconected the coil wire and held it close , no spark, disconected a spark plug wire at the dizzy, no spark, disconected the plug wire at the plug, held it near the tin, nothing. getiing 12v at the coil. what am i missing?

Chef, could be just a bad or broken coil ignition cable. If the distributor has been out or replaced it maybe 180 out.

Did you do any work on the car prior to this?
Or, was it running and now it isn't.
Could be a lot of things if you just worked on it.
Probably the Pertronix shutter unit if it just stopped.
Look at their site for troubleshooting the unit.

if the pertronix is hooked up backwards it will fail.
did you do some work and forget to reinstall your rotor?

rotor is in, petronix is in correctly ( i think), was trying it with points and had the same result. coil wire is new... this 180 thing sounds interesting, how can i tell?
update... tried a different coil same sh..., went back to original and retested voltage came in @10.3. volts

Put #1 cylinder at tdc. Pull distributor replace distributor so the rotor is pointing just short of being straight towards the left side of the inspection hole - actually more like the bend in the black flapper rod. Make sure the cap has the plug wires in the correct firing order and the rotor is pointing to fire #1.
Retime with strobe light after it starts.

I just went through this with Paul (lotus65's) car. He has points so it was easier for me because i was able to use my static timing light for a starting point.

Even if the distributor is 180 out he should be getting spark when holding the ign wires close to ground.

Speaking of ground, is your tranny ground hooked up?

thanks i,ll try that. by the inspection hole do you mean the round plastic plug used for timing? also i just tried putting a screwdriver in the coil wire a 1/4 inch off the tin and turned the engine, no spark while it was cranking but a single spark when i put the key back into the run position did it 6 times to make sure i,m not nuts

Sounds like Ign switch is miswired or the ign wire is shorted to ground when the started is engaged.

As said above, What work have you done recently??

Rich says he has no spark - not a general no start issue. The 180 thing would not stop the spark. Just it would spark at the wrong time. He has 10v at the coil - that's low but not low enough to stop a spark at all. You are going to have to look at that at some point Rich. There was some thought in another thread about the miswired switch giving 12v only in the on position (not in the start). Measure again while trying to start. If you have 12v to the coil during start then the problem has to be somewhere in the dizzy - no switch to ground.

Edit:
no spark while it was cranking but a single spark when i put the key back into the run position did it 6 times to make sure i,m not nuts

That really sounds like it may be the miswired switch. You get the spark when the key goes back to 'on' and the motor hasn't quite stopped. Maybe?

this is a 74 engine that was running that i put in my car to replace my 1.7. d jet. i put in all new seals and a new clutch. and put it in. i just now tried chappy's idea of bringing the #1 piston to tdc and have discovered that my rear wheels will only move a 1/4 of a turn , then there is a thud, this happens in all gears. i can hear the clutch shifting although it is a little spongy. it doesn't seem to be the brake, the emergency brake holds fine.

That really sounds like it may be the miswired switch. You get the spark when the key goes back to 'on' and the motor hasn't quite stopped. Maybe?
[/quote]

that;s it exactly. how do i rewire the switch? could it be that this is still the harness from my 1.7 d-jet?

I wish i was there to help you.......
There is nothing like seeing it for yourself....

i wish i was there, i've seen too much

Go stirfry something, have a beer or two and watch the Yanks sweep the Twins...

First things first. Measure the voltage at the coil with the key in the start position.

.
at first 6v then it jumped to 10.3v

got a place to crash?
Safe place to park?
I will come down if you want.

Rich

that's too much to ask. any idea why the rear wheels lock up when it's in gear
could i have put the tranny or the clutch in wrong?

Chefie, any new news, i was tempted to give you a call while the server was down.

i tried your idea, put the #1 tdc repositioned the dizzy, looked for a spark, didn't see one (working alone so it.s not easy to see when turning the key), but i did get a cough and a puff of black smoke from the tailpies just as the battery went dead.
as for the wheels not turning i removed the tranny, pulled out the gears....who am i kidding.i put the lug bolts from a set of fuchs onto my steelies, appently longer isn't always better. i am a moron

That confirms that switch is not miswired. It may however be wearing out. One last suggestion. compare that voltage to the voltage at the battery when cranking. 10.3 is low but if it was just your battery wearing down then you have to start looking elsewhere. That "6v then jumped to 10.3" really sounds like a worn switch.

When you did the carb conversion did you retain the relay board> Is the coil wire still going through the board?

the switch is new (assuming we are talking about the white plastic switch in the steering column) it worked fine last summer, the battery is definately low, will recharge this weekend, when i installed the 2.0 carbed engine i did not change the harness or relay board from my 1.7 d-jet. coil wire is goin thru the board

Here ya go..

We went through this problem not too long ago....

No Spark thread

You need to charge that battery. You need to see 12 volts at the coil with the ignition switch turned on. Don't leave it on very long.

Ken

i read that thread , problem there was points, i'm running petronix. here is my plan
charge the battery, disconnect the ignitiion switch, run a wire strait from the battery to the coil, check the voltage at the coil (is the correct way positive lead from the meter to +. negative lead to- or to tin?) then just try and start it with starter fluid bad plan?

i'm pretty sure the petronix is good. would'nt mind some help this weekend, i'll call you tomorrow. i should be off sun and monday, let bobby flay handle the enchiladas (by the way we hate each other) maybe get some of the jersey bums to come by . have some burgers and beer
if you like bring the family and the lab. he can swim in the pool i have an 11 year old

A quick check is use the igniton switch and measure at the coil while the engine is cranking. When the engine is turning over, you should see a steady 12v on the + side of the coil. On the other side of the coil (connected to the distributor), you should see the voltage alternate from 12v to 0, 12v to 0 as the pertronix (or points) open and close. If you don't get the alternating voltage on the distributor side of the coil, I'd look at the pertronix and/or condenser and/or ground wire in the dizzy as the failing items. If you do get the above, the problem is elsewhere- say at the switch or the wiring coming from the switch.

Or, you can use an idiot light whuch might work better with a single operator. Clamp the wire on one side of the coil, route the wire over the rollbar and touch the probe of the light to a ground point on the body. Crank the engine ad look for the flashing light. No light, check the dizzy.

Be careful with the pertronix, they are finicky.

Do you have points and a condenser as a backup in case you need to check the pertronix (by replacement)???

Actually sounds reasonable to me. 'cept for the starter fluid bit. Leave that alone for a while until you know you have spark. In theory you should not have to disconnect the ignition switch. To be safe maybe remove the wiring harness lead to the coil and just have the 12v going to the coil.

The pertronics will fry itself if the key is left on (or that hot wire is attached) without the car running or cranking. Get a buddy to help. Have him crank while you hook up the hot wire. Better yet get the points back in till you figure this thing out.

I found it easier to look for spark by pulling the lead off and hooking it up to a spark plug. Touch the sparkplug to ground and look for spark. I'm a sissy so I wear thick leather gloves when I do that.

[quote name='swl' date='May 22 2009, 05:41 PM' post='1171999']
[quote name='nycchef' post='1171646' date='May 21 2009, 07:41 PM']
Actually sounds reasonable to me. 'cept for the starter fluid bit. Leave that alone for a while until you know you have spark. In theory you should not have to disconnect the ignition switch. To be safe maybe remove the wiring harness lead to the coil and just have the 12v going to the coil.

The pertronics will fry itself if the key is left on (or that hot wire is attached) without the car running or cranking. Get a buddy to help. Have him crank while you hook up the hot wire. Better yet get the points back in till you figure this thing out.

I found it easier to look for spark by pulling the lead off and hooking it up to a spark plug. Touch the sparkplug to ground and look for spark. I'm a sissy so I wear thick leather gloves when I do that.
[/quote]
thats kinda what i meant. remove the wire from the harness to the coil, attach a wire to the pos. touch to the pos on battery, car should crank. wire off battery car will stop crancking...yes
although leaving out the starter fluid takes some of the fun out of the process. no spray=no explosion=no insurance =no 911

lol - sorry - I'm old - don't feel the need for that kind of excitement any more

Not quite on the cranking thing. Separate circuit for the starter.

problem solved, engine is actually running. i want to thank everyone for their help and patience, and especially scott (esses62) for coming out this morning and getting it running. his extensive knowledge of the 914 and my uncanny ability to turn the key upon command made us a great team. scott thanks again anything you need i am there
now to tune the carbs. bleed the brakes, adjust the clutch, well i think it's safe to assume there will be more posts
thanks all
rich

So what was it?

Gonna leave us hanging????

[quote name='kwales' date='May 25 2009, 09:56 AM' post='1172750']
So what was it?

Gonna leave us hanging????
[/quotewish i knew, at first wrong wiring, then dizzy off 180 degrees, possibly fried petronix, timing off, weak battery. scott would know better than me , i just turned the key

But I'm sure you did a fine job of turning that key! lol

Have fun. The ability to make it go vroom vroom is a great moral booster.

Atta boy Scott!

Nice, glad to hear it is working

Hey Man,
I will have to come over after the 5th sometime when I become free I am glad Scott was there to help you

doc you coming up here? that would be great. bring dark clothing , maybe we can kidnap leo off long island for a day.

YEAAAAYYY!!!

No starty can be very troubling.

I always get reallly weird problems or layers of problems that don't follow the rules.

Last month's one was the 1969-1970 vintatge mower where I went through the entire electrical system of points, plug, spark wire, condenser, coil, voltage regulator, ignition switch, wiring harness, solenoid, battery and starter/generator....

Problem was twofold. Bad battery and a subtle thing inside the starter/generator where a small piece of insulation had disintegrated. The battery and insulation issue prevented the starter from spinning the motor fast enough to untrigger the compression release... A piece of electrical tape to replace the insulation, a new battery, and it finally spun fast enough to start.......