So we have people complaining about Rob updating the thread at least once a day...people complaining about the WCR being the same weekend as RRC...and now people complaining that we are going to be "lost" in another car show that may or may not be at the same place now.

Did anyone find out yesterday if Cool September Days is moving for sure or is it just a possibility?

Maybe just to shut some people up, Rob might want to think about updating the thread once a week?

I know we can't please everyone and maybe its just a vocal minority, but its putting a damper on an event still about a year away

Thoughts?

Is the cool Sept days the only reason we're picking that weekend? I know there are quite a few people who are pissed about us getting on the RRC date. I would vote to look into possible date alternatives just for the good PR. It's a PITA, but it might be worth it.

I see it as a vocal minority.

The driving force for the specific data was Cool September Nights(CSN) and it is very unfortunate that it falls on the traditional RRC dates but I think it will make WRC2010 a better event. The effort and CO$T required to arrange the site and space we are being given access to as part of CSN will be significant if we choose to go it alone. Correct me if I am wrong but we are paying nothing for the site except possibly the auto cross and PCA will get that bill. We are not negotiating with any hotels for discounts or contracting for rooms but we will get the discounted rate Tom has negotiated. We are not paying entry fees to CSN unless individuals want to join there show and be judged by them.
As for getting lost, we will be getting a section of the lot to ourselves and with the Autocross added in I think there are going to be CSN participants that are going to feel slighted.
After talking with my brother in law, his understanding is only reason CSN would move is if the county forces the Horizon owner to tear down the Horizon and build new instead of just refurbishing it. Larry (the bother in law) has been attending this car show for over a decade and knows Tom the CSN organizer pretty well. Tom has already arranged for an alternate site just in case and presumably we are included at the new site as well.

Jim

Maybe I heard wrong but I thought Paul had already talked with the Horizon and got a reduced room rate, blocked off area for parking/events, and section of rooms reserved before there was any talk about CSN, it just had to be before Memorial day or after Labor Day.

I didn't think there was a cost for that, they just wanted to rooms to be taken.

Has anyone read the reviews for the Horizon? Looks dumpy and I really wonder how many people are going to want to stay in a hotel that may be slated for demolition. Either way, sounds like it really needs renovating. I vote we look into a different venue.

Trip Advisor Reviews for the Horizon:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g4...ine_Nevada.html

It was my understanding, Randy, that the only link to the Horizon was where we would park, mingle and hopefully put on the autocross.

Paul did contact them about room rates and they were going to set aside a group of rooms for us, but no commitment was needed. Anyone is welcome to stay where they like.

I personally have stayed at Horizon and while I prefer a different place, I didn't think Horizon was that bad..then again I was young and "cheap" was the driving factor back then.

Luckily, any place you stay in South Shore is within 2 blocks of where the event is happening. The reason Horizon works so well is they have a large back parking lot that is pretty flat and open. They also have a parking garage so us using the lot would not be a big deal for them.

As best as we can tell, the Horizon is the only venue at Tahoe that we can have an autocross. They have had them in the past and they will allow them in the future. None of the other venues I have talked to would even consider closing a lot for us.

I am not sure the hotels revues are relevant since there are three other hotels towering over it for people who are concerned about such things. Harvey's, Harrah's and one other.

Tom Argo and his Cool September Days event has 24 years of history at the Horizon. I suspect that gives him a large negotiating advantage we don't have. Plus his event enhances ours. The relationship is symbiotic. Greater than either would be by themselves.

Finally, why is this just being brought up now? The dates were announced almost two months ago. Only one person even mentioned it. Now, after they all stood around a parking lot drinking they decide to publicly challenge everything we have planned thus far??? I would be far more inclined to even consider their objection if it had been timely and appropriate. That being at the time of our initial announcement and privately instead of in a public attack.

I just found out the RRC was the same weekend within the last two weeks. I have never gone, but I think the people who like to go to both are the main ones upset.

I knew having it in Tahoe would bring more guys from AZ/CO/ etc since its a much closer drive than Irvine, Portland, Seattle. Just something we didn't consider.

They probably didn't bring it earlier because a.they assumed its in Spring and b.its more than a year away and wern't paying attention.

My motivation for when this event happens is not the color of the trees, it's not the number of hot rods in the parking lot with us, and it's not whether or not there's racing.

Even though those things ARE good things to have, my number one motivation is that 914World people are generally happy with the event. Right now we have a significant group of people with a valid complaint and we have no concrete reason (that I've heard) to ignore them. So we look like the bad guys.

Why is this coming up now? Because it is. I'm more concerned with what's the problem and is it valid, than WHY it's coming up now. Would it have been better if it came up earlier? Yes. Does that make a difference? No.

As far as I know, nothing has been booked or otherwise locked in stone. So what's keeping us from looking at other dates?

And finally, as I mentioned in a PM to Rob, I'm perfectly willing to step back from planning if I'm 'rocking the boat'. I've got no ego in this, and I would have no ill will towards anyone. I'm not trying to be melodramatic, I want the best event possible, and if me not being involved makes the event go more smoothly, then that's what I want.

Rob,

How about instead of posting replies to everyone complaining in the WCR thread, we simply say we will schedule a meeting to go over options and come to a consensus as a group and then post what we decide.

I'm getting a little tired of the committee being made to look like dicks when most of us haven't had a say in any of the replies so far.

This, in my opinion, is why we have a private forum, so crap doesn't clog up the Garage.

I don't think it is necessary or desirable for anyone to step away from the planning committee, I think we have a good group. Although after this sudden and vicious attack on our event I would not blame anyone for excusing themselves.
I plan to make a post to one or both of the public threads latter today so Rob does not look like he is alone in this.

I think it would be smart to have a meeting and discuss where we go from here. I like the idea of being part of the Cool September Days event but I do think we should look at our options. What does the CSN event give us that we can't do on our own or would be too much work to do on our own? What would the impact be to both WCR and RRC if we stick with our dates?

I never understood any event to have a lock on any dates but then I am a relative newby to World. I also never took the few expressed concerns over the date as an issue, we will never please everyone. By nature I tend to have a knee jerk reaction to people that react suddenly and poorly, I dig my heels in and get very stubborn (not always with good results).

We did not so much pick a date as decide it was a good idea to piggy back with an existing event that had a set date.

Obviously we need to have a discussion and come to a consensus or the event will suffer.

My $.02
Jim

We certainly need to come to a consensus and present a united response. We're not gaining ground, support or respect by the way it's going now. All the RRC people want is to feel like we're not the 'big guy' shitting on their event. Ideally we could all just clear the slate and invite the RRC guys over to work out a compromise.

This fight is WAY bigger than it needs to be.

The threads should have been shut down and the RRC people encouraged to contact us privately.

At this point, I will be contacting PCA and apologizing for wasting their time. I am out.

Too bad. It got way blown out of proportion.

So to the rest of the people who are still committed to this, are we going to be able to pull it off?

Too bad. It got way blown out of proportion.

So to the rest of the people who are still committed to this, are we going to be able to pull it off?

Mark - PM'ing you.

What is really amazing is the request by both Paul and me to shut down the threads is being ignored. Now Rusty is getting into the bashing posting a thread announcing the dates for MUSR as the same as the RRC and WCR. Actually, now that I think about it, I expect that kind of crap from Rusty.

This isn't about egos. I have influence and credibility with PCA that I risk by pushing this event.

If we keep the current dates, I am out since I have a wedding to be in that weekend and doesn't look like I can make it.

If the dates are changed, I would be happy to continue to help plan things with the understanding that any futures concerns, questions or complaints from other board members are acknowledged, discussed here first, and then responded to wherever they came from.

Whatever works for me...I certainly don't want to get attacked like Rob but I think that could have easily been avoided.

The threads are shut down now.

All except the bogus ramble announcements all on the same dates. Really too little too late and the participation of Gint and Andy was just too much frosting for my taste.

They will get bored with these shortly, simple minds can't stay focused long.
I do find it frustrating when the admins or others I would expect to be above this participate.

Next step?

Jim

Yeah, I deleted them and Rusty put them back. I'm breathing fire. I haven't been this pissed in years.

Get pissed, Mark. Tough shit. You overstepped your bounds as an admin.

It was innocnet fun, making light of a situation that had gotten way too serious. If Rob is so offended, then maybe deep down he knows something about himself.

Either way, Mark... you're an Admin. Try following the published rules and not taking sides either way.

I disagree Rusty.

We were trying to come up with a solution to the problem in this forum, as all planning discussion should.
Mark posted that we were doing that several times, and instead of just waiting, you feel the need to start bashing/making fun of us in the main garage. Real classy.

I'm sure you would feel the same if people were constantly posting threads bashing admins because of what one admin said, without given a chance to reply.

Brett,
Just ignore Rusty. We have history. When the Baker's were vandalizing my house and trying to kill my pets Rusty was acting like he was a bouncer here on the site and telling me to knock it off... Instead of asking what was going on, he just wades in and starts barking as if he is talking to his troops. Talk about adding insult to injury. I guess he couldn't imagine that some things are bigger than this site or didn't care. Now I have a civil restraining order against them...

He is trying to characterize the bogus threads as innocent fun with the purpose of trying to bring levity to a situation that had gotten too serious. In fact, he was taking an opportunity to dig at me. This is exactly why it is a good thing that he is no longer an admin. He lacks the same objectivity he is accusing Mark of right here. If he was objective, he would not have posted those threads. He was an ass, and apparently still is. Something he should probably try and see in himself?

Mark did the right thing at Paul's request not mine. Did I think it should be done? You bet I did. In fact, I wondered why it wasn't done Monday. Mark is busy with a big personal life-event. (I think he is getting circumsized or something) so I didn't bother him.

Randy,

A little background history on the Horizon. The group leasing the property were evicted by the property owner for not paying the lease and failing to maintain recently. The property owner has stepped in and is operating the hotel and casino.

I hear your concern and I do share it to an extent. Personally, I can stay in a tent and be happy but my wife uses terms like "5 Star Hotel" when she talks about travel. So I have to consider the quality of the hotel when I travel too... I suspect that the average guy in our target audience is happy with a bed without fleas, a shower and a shitter as long as they can hang in the parking lot with the guys.
The other hotels that are across the street and next door have very nice reviews I am sure. Harvey's. Harrah's etc...

Our problem is finding a venue that will allow us to congregate and a big bonus would be allow us to autocross. The Horizon will. Historically none of the others have even listened beyond the congregate in the parking lot thing as this is exactly what they try to keep their sucurity people from letting happen.

I believe the mandated "Cooling Off" period has expired and we should start talking again.
I kind of see 3 options:
A ) Stick by our original plans
B ) Move our WCR2010 to a new date
C ) Keep our date but change the event to a "Local" event not the WCR2010 event

I think we have a good group here and we can make a great event happen.
Anyone up for trying to get a planning meeting together?

Jim

Yes I was a bit bent and put off when all the sh*t hit the fan and had several knee jerk reactions in mind but I am past that and I still want to be involved.

Hi Jim,

My vote is to move WRC2010 to a new date. There's still plenty of time between now and "then" (whenever then is), so it's not like we'd be making a change last minute. Why not have the event in May/Early June? Most of the cars lack A/C, right, so why punish people with a mid summer event? *selfish grin*

I'm headed over to Sonoma next week to talk shop with Mark and to talk about the event as well. It'll be sometime during the week as my weekends are hosed right now. I think the big priorities right now are to a) get the date and then announce it in a new WRC2010 thread in the garage. Then keep our ears wide open. If there's another big event conflict, and I don't mean Z's sister's b-day or similar, then we can swap dates. But this would have to be a case of, "You have a week to speak up or forever hold your peace."

Once the date has announced, then we could go about putting the rest of the puzzle together.

I think we should also not make further public mention of the drama that went on with Take 1 of this event. Moving forward with determination and focus will smooth all that nonsense out.

Rob, I love ya man, but I'm still dead against daily cheerleading in the WRC thread. More than one planner finds it obnoxious and to me that says enough. Maybe daily cheers would make a lot more sense a week or month before the event date. Daily reminders felt like those awful digital TV converter box info commercials that came on every five minutes. Right, I could ignore them, but they still took away from the show I was trying to watch.

Thoughts?

Oops, sorry I missed this Rob.

That makes a lot more sense now and I appreciate the clarification. Ha! Yeah, Sylvie and I both like tents actually as we're really big into camping. Oooh, maybe we could have a little 914 camping trip sometime! Anywho, when it comes to hotels we're both princesses. I can take a certain amount of funky charm, but can't stand bad smelling, dirty hotels. ewww!

Randy...can you make it Friday at Marks? I will be there working on getting my engine back in and wouldn't mind meeting you.

I am fine with moving the date, but I'm biased since I can't make it the dates selected...so I'll leave it up to others.

Hmm, that might be tight. It all depends if I'm going to a family reunion that weekend or not. Will advise shortly.

Yep, Friday works for me. What time will you be at Mark's? I'll be there around lunch time if we all want to grab a bite to eat.

I should be there around the same time. I have to go to Placerville to pick up my heads in the morning and then will be on my way.

I'll do my best to get there by lunch but I get back from Hawaii Thursday night so it could be tough setting that alarm

See you soon

Brett

Sorry to do this so last minute, but I can't make it to Mark's today. Too much work to do with my job.

Brett just called and he's going to be late anyway.