I finished rebuilding my transmission at the SoCal Dr. Evil workshop last Saturday (9/19/09). Everything is ready to go, but I can't find 4th or 5th - it feels like it neutral where 4th and 5th should be.

I've read dozens of threads regarding adjusting the shift bar, but I'm still not smart enough to figure it out.

I am assuming I need to turn the shift bar a few splines either clockwise or counter-clockwise? Am I on the right track? How do I do that???

Reverse and 1st through 3rd work great.

Eric

Eric,
What did you expect for getting a deal? You have to pay extra for 4th & 5th!

Sorry, just had to push the button... it sounds like your linkage bar is misaligned, I assume you've lined up the cone screws (one at the trans coupling and one at the firewall? If so you'll need to adjust the shift bar where it connects to the shifter. Before you pull it out mark the orientation of the bar. Then pull it out and turn it clockwise (to the right) a spline or two. You may have to play with it a little to get it oriented so that it goes into every gear.

You can find 4th & 5th to the right of 2nd & 3rd
Oh wait, you knew that!
Generally you can adjust the shift rod either at the gearshift or at the access hole near the firewall (the preferred location). I believe you need to rotate the rear shaft to the right (clockwise facing forward) one spline at a time to get the adjustment.

Firstly, I DID pay Dr. Evil extra for 4th and 5th... Hmmm.....I wonder if the check cleared.

The cone screws are in and correct. So how do you move the shift bar clockwise? I had the bar apart a couple of times, but I couldn't seem to turn the bar clockwise... Should I have it in neutral before I detach the bar to do this?

Thanks for your advice in advance!

Ok.. here is the easy way.

1. Take off the cover on the side shift console attached to the transmission.

2. Put the transmission in second gear at the shift console. This can be done by putting the arm in the middle of its vertical travel, and pulling rearward on it.

3. Disconnect the shifter from the shaft under the shifter by loosening the pinch bolt and shifting in the direction of third gear.

4. Place the shifter against the spring loaded gate and feed the rod into the coupler on the shifter. Push it until it is in the second gear position.

5. At the shift console, push forward on the arm until the trans drops into neutral.

6. Center the shifter fore and aft, and tighten the pinch bolt.


It sounds easy, but getting the rod in the shifter is the bitch.. you have to have something to hold it up in that tight space.


Let me know if this works for you.

Hey Eric,
Clay's directions are pretty good. I would add that if you unbolt all three of the bolts that connect the shifter to the body of the car it will make it a lot easier to adjust the splines in the correct position.

With the pinch bolt just loose, I like to take a pair of channel locks and rotate the splines a notch or two while holding the shifter in second gear postion..then tighten. With the bolts off you will be able to tighten the pinch bolt easier. Once the pinch bolt is tight you can bolt the shifter down to the body. Go for a drive with a pair of channel locks, 13mm on a rachet and do any final adjustments.

Hey...come to think about it, wasn't that the 4th 5th bands that I gave you.

Well, I'm done for the evening (I'm really, really old)

Clay; I found that connecting two tie-wraps in a circle, and placing them under the shift pinch-bolt assembly greatly eased the issue of aligning the pinch-bolt assy to the shifter bar.

Mark; Yep, those were your bands. Hmmmmm... Is this one of those "send me money and I'll activate them" deals???

I like your idea to loosen the other two bolts. My real problem is getting the shift bar to rotate. I seemed to replace the shift bar in the exact location I started - four times.

Dr. Evil's workshop was a blast. And Leamon was great in letting us make a mess of... err... use his shop. I'll post my pictures in the next day or so.

Thanks everybody!

Eric

Eric - bad news; remember, I helped you install the the "C" rings on those gears. Between Mark's "faulty" rings and my "expertise" assembly pratices you might be hosed!

Would you guys knock it off? It is becming more and more apparent that I was a total slacker Saturday.

As a result of my technical workmanship, Mark's rings and your assembly skills, I would expect that the only gears working would be 4th and 5th!

What about 6th? Is it not working either?

Seriously Eric, I had a great time meeting you and working in "your space". Take the night off and then tomorrow follow Clay's directions and it will all fall into place. If I was closer I'd be glad to run over and help.

If you adjust and adjust, and you still can't find 4th/5th, take a look at what your clutch cable is doing when you try to move the gear shift lever into that plane. If the cable moves side to side, you've got a busted clutch tube bracket. It can be welded in-place (ask McMark; he did the job on mine!) or you can cut up the center tunnel to get at it.

The tube, when it has come loose, can interfere with the lateral motion of the gear shift lever.

--DD

I am glad Clay wrote it up.....I get tired of repeating myself

4th and 5th will work when you are worthy, not before

I'm just lurking but this confuses me a little. If the shifter is adjusted properly and you remove and rebuild the tranny does that mean it doesn't go back exactly at the forks to use the old adjustment settings or that it is adjusted over time and gets off then must be put back where it belongs after a rebuild and resetting of the forks?

Hey Doc, you ahhhh thinkin this maybe why my inards had that sign of wear?

Reason I ask is I am having trouble shifting too. Will the blurb above be a good starting place?

Thanks for the thread Eric....saves me from sounding like a putz....(not that ur a putz, just I have all this work that I have done to my car and can't get it to shift right....!)

Degreeoff - after my /6 rebuild and install (including a rebuilt trans) I really had to push hard to the left to get my car to go into 1st and reverse. After doing the proceedure like Clay explained it now shifts very clean and smooth.

Remember all; there are 3 linkage points in our shift mechanisms. 2 of them are fixed by the cone screws so they can't change. Only one location will allow you to adjust the rotation and front to rear adjustment (assuming that all your bushings are good), that is where the rod meets the shifter. You'd be suprised at how much a little rotation makes a difference.

If your internal shift forks are adjusted correctly (and yours are, I did it), then your shifting issues are external. I am having a hard time with the clarity of your problems so I will address the top 3:

1. I cant find "insert gear numbers here"

If you cant find gears that are on the same plane; 1-3-5, R-2-4, 1-R, 4-5, then your shifter bar adjustment is off.
If you cant find 1-3-5 or R-2-4 then you need to loosen the pinch bolt and slide the shift lever TOWARDS the gears that you CAN find; if you have R-2-4 and need 1-3-5, move the lever more towards the front of the car when the bolt is loose. This will shorten the shift rod and give you more pull in the 1-3-5- plane.
***With your problem of not finding 4-5 you must adjust the L-R plane.
Q1. How do you know you have R-1, and 2-3? 2-3 can easily be in the R-1 position and 4-5 would then be in the 2-3 position. This would make you shifting seem to stop after 3rd gear. If this is the case you need to:
- Loosen the pinch bolt
- Move your stick shift towards the drivers side while keeping the shift rod in the tunnel from moving.
- Re-tighten the pinch bolt with the stick shift held in the new position
- Discover the missing gears.

Now you are ready to find the real second gear and adjust your shifter as stated in the post above.

2. After a rebuild, it is hard to get it into gear = need more strength.
This is perfectly normal for a while after a rebuild. Synchro bands vary in their stiffness and thus how easy they collapse. New ones are very stiff, older ones are easier to use. If your shift linkage is adjusted correctly, and it is not grinding when shifting, then you are fine and need to man up
The newer/new synchro bands will cause any weak or worn out parts of your shift linkage to fail so fix it now or on the side of the road.

3. Grinds when going into gear or pops out of gear once in.
this is an actual problem. Grinding should not happen on a rebuild. Poping out of gear, so long as it is not that the linkage is not adjusted correctly, is not acceptable on a rebuild either.
1st will grind sometimes after a rebuild depending on if you are down shifting with the tranz still spooled up. It should not be more than minor, though and you need to check your clutch cable to make sure your clutch is totally disengaging.

Charlie,
you need to adjust the linkage every time you pull the engine or tranny. You will not be able to align the drive train exactly the same in the car and any movement of the drive train with relation to the car (where the shift linkage is affixed) will throw off the pattern. That is why bad engine or tranny mounts can cause shifting issues.

OK - Here's the update.

After trying to get 4th and 5th for about a day and a half, I took my car over to a fellow teener, Thomas over at EDM in Santa Ana. He is a master machinist and has several 914 projects. After dinking with my shift adjustment for about an hour, he agreed that I do not have the ability to select 4th or 5th gears.

How could this be, you ask??? Well, let me tell you. When he was manually setting the transmission into 2nd gear, he noticed that the ball pin (the part that attaches to the shift fingers on the bearing bracket assembly) was loose. Very loose. Even with the roll pin properly set, it was very loose.

Now I remember late Saturday evening when Dr. Evil took a look at that very assembly, he had a somewhat disapproving look. I asked him if that was bad, and the Dr. replied "It's not good, but it yours".

Thomas thought that although R and 1 through 4 shifted very well, the tolerance was so loose on that ball that I was unable to select 4th and 5th. The good news is that after taking various parts from his bins, he was able to build an assembly with zero play. (Although the first complete unit looked great compared to mine, he wouldn't let me leave until he had re-assembled a perfect one - TOO COOL!)

Anyway, I will drain the tranny oil tomorrow, remove the linkage and replace the shift fork assembly. I will report back here my success, or not success...

That's it for now.

Eric

Thomas is good people So your was the one with the concerning second click? The slop was not an issue when I inspected it, but it seems to have developed into something bad. If it were to be a box problem, Thomas is who I was gonna send you to for investigation

(my red racer "Please" is up on blocks as a 2-3, 4-5 gear only. I also has a pass side engine bar bolt shear off and shifty engine (Yuck!) so rustoration in progress. It was time....thanks for the tech-know guys!)

OK, as I was falling a sleep this morning I remembered the issue you spoke of, Eric. My intention was that you hold off and we address the looseness, but I guess that somehow we didnt and it was assembled as is. It is interesting that you got R-3 on that set up but not 4-5. I am sorry that I was not clear on the need to get that slop taken care of. When I said, "Sure, its not my transmission" I was trying to be funny and to indicate that it needs to be fixed. Sorry for the extra bit of work it caused you and I am glad you were able to handle it. I was more concerned about the stack than the console as the console is easy to remove, fix and install.

Relax there Dr. Dude! All is well. I'm heading over to the parts store right now for some more tranny fluid, and I will change out the part this afternoon. BTW: 1st 2nd and 3rd are AWESOME!

The "Sure, its not my transmission" is pure Dr. Evil. We all know that is your sense of levity (God help your patients )

My thanks for all of your assistance, and I'm sure 4th and 5th will return soon (I feel as though I'm almost worthy enough for them now )

Eric

Indeed, you have crossed the threshold into 4-5 worthiness

No Joy

Dr. Evil;

I replaced the ball pin-shift finger asembly this afternoon. Unfortunately, I am still unable to find 4th or 5th gear. Using my hand on the ball, I can feel R, 1st, 2nd and 3rd click into place. 4th feels like I'm barely pressing against a spring at the end of the travel, and I don't feel anything for 5th.

So what is the next step?

I imagine I need to drop the tranny again. Take it over to Thomas and see if he'll take a look?

Please let me know...

For everybody else out there, I have no doubt this this is a minor issue. Possibly a shift rod alignment issue inside the case, or maybe one of the shift rods weren't tightened quite enough. The only reason I'm sharing this with the board is that this is probably a worst case scenario. Anyone who was at the SoCal Transmission clinic will agree that I am no whiz with a wrench, and nothing to this point has caused me to regret in any way my participation in the clinic. If I can get this thing working correctly (wih help when necessary) then anyone can.

Eric

EDIT: I spoke to Thomas and he's kindly agreed to take a look at the tranny on Friday afternoon. So I will trudge downstairs and drop the tranny now.

ER

The only thing I can think of is that the 4-5 fork is loose (no bolt?). That is odd. I am sure Thomas will straighten it out. Sorry you are having such a time, especially since this is your daily driver. I bet it is a simple fix.

I guess I should have stuck with Leaman's adjustment. It might not have been as accurate, but at least it was tightened...

The good news is that I can now drop a transmission in 90 minutes. That's right folks, from street driving to dropping the tranny in just 90 minutes.

Eric

You don't have to remove the tranny, just drop the back end, remove the tail cover, the side shift console, and slide the gear stack out.

Then readjust......

Eric, I applaud your positive attitude! Although, your thread is making me a bit nervous. I'll have mine back in Sat. morning...hopefully, there won't be any new threads from me

I'm very curious to find out what your 4/5 issue is. Like the Doc said, it's probably something very simple. Perhaps it's those parts I borrowed when you were eating lunch...I thought they were extras.

Eric,
I am really sorry that this happened to your daily driver...that sucks.

I think you need to pull the stack out and get it looked at by Thomas...probably the best way forward at this point.

sounds like a shift fork issue that can be resolved if he has a few minutes to look close at it.

Rich

To be honest, I have the ability to work from home when necessary, so it hasn't been a significant problem for me.

Clay; You are correct, of course. But i want to ensure the entire unit is working correctly. So I dropped the tranny, and I'm taking it to Thomas on Friday.

I'll post what Thomas determines the problem was as soon as I return from his shop on Friday evening.

When I originally drove it to Thomas' shop yesterday (using 1st through 3rd)
the difference in shifting was amazing. I just can't wait to get 4th and 5th fixed so I can really take my teener out on the road!

For anybody else lurking out there, one of the main reasons I decided to take advantage of Dr. Evil's clinic was that he "warranteed" the re-built tranny for a few months. As a result, one of Dr. Evil's associates/peers (Thomas in my case) is assisting me in troubleshooting this issue. Dr. Evil has made every effort to assist me, which is as much as anyone should expect.

If we find that the shift fork is loose, I only ask one thing; At every other transmission clinic, everytime Dr. Evil adjusts your shift forks, ask him "Are you sure you tightened that shift fork correctly?"

Eric

Thomas checked all of your external linkage, right? Nothing in the tunnel is blocking you up? This is just a strange problem.

Mark, dont worry. In over 100 rebuilds I have had 2 (including this one) that needed a little attention due to internal stuff.

If you are so inclined, when you have your box out, pull the selector console with the tranz in neutral. Then, look into the hole and see if the rods are aligned (check against pic in my rebuild thread). This will give some info in the mean time.

Yes, we specifically checked for this.

As for alignment, I will try to get to the console to check this afternoon.

Mark; Don't make any jokes about Dr. Evil looking old. I'm not saying Dr. Evil's sensitive, but I'm the only one with the rebuild problem...
Eric

You said I look old? I dont remember that.

There are two things to look for when you are inspecting the shift rods through the shift console hole...at least two that are easy to see.

If its in neutral, all three shift rods should line up vertically...a simple visual will confirm this...they really need to be dead on.

the second is a twisted shift rod. It will appear vertically correct, but the 4/5 rod is actually twisted slightly.
It really wont be an easy thing to see and it cannot be fixed unless you pull the gear stack...but if you put a small straight edge up into the groove of the shift rods, the place the shift tooth from the console goes....and try to hold the straight edge on to the bottom of the groove, you will see if one is twisted.

Good luck

Rich

I'm not sure I actually said outright that you looked old. I only mentioned during dinner that although I was 20 years older than you, I felt much, much younger when I compared myself to you. If I remember correctly, you blamed your "elder" look with a few days of beard growth. After dinner you adjusted my shift forks.

It was really funny until I couldn't shift into 4th and 5th...

Eric

The twisted rod for 4-5 will either be obvious or it will not be the problem. The fingers can interact with the rod or it cant.

Ya know, I stayed sober the whole time at the SoCal clinic....maybe that was the problem

IT IS ALIVE!!!

I drove over to Thomas' shop this afternoon with my tranny. He removed the back, pulled the stacks and quickly surmused the 4th and 5th gear fork was loose. A few minutes later, the fork was adusted and tightened, the stack replaced in the case, and the back bolted down.

Click to view attachment
You can't see it real clearly form this picture, but the 4th 5th gear fork is out of position. Thomas noticed the bolt was fairly loose on this fork.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
Note the alignment jig. Yep, he made it himself from an old tranny case. In the background is his 1.7 10-year project.

He also has a 3.2 914 that sports a 911-01 transmission. As he explained it to me, it has basically the same internals as a 901, with a larger flywheel are clutch area and from what I can tell, a different clutch release process than the 901 tranny.

Anyway, after rabout 20 minutes, my transmission was all back together and all six gears were selectable from the shift ball.

I'll put it back in my teener tomorrow and post my results.

Eric

Doh! I am glad it is fixed. Sorry about that. You should have tightened that bolt

One more item of note. While he was removing the back of the transmission, Thomas noted that he didn't much care for the stainles steel nuts. His thoughts were that the stainless steel was dissimilar enough to the steel studs in the tranny to cause a potential corrosion problem

Thomas said he preferred a steel nylock nut.

Any thoughts?

As much as I respect his opinion, I did the research and stainless nylock is the same as stainless in that it will corrode the same with contact to the mag alloy (the corrodie). The space distance on the galvanic scale is negligible and the stock hardware corrodes just fine. The stainless is a good bet, I have looked into it. For the 100th time now

every body likes different nuts doc,so don't worry ,i was happy to help you and eric out
btw its a 2.4 engine with the 911/01 tranns

Thomas, you are the man

I am still trying to figure out why Eric needs 4th and 5th... one can only go so fast on the sidewalks as it is.

Give the pedestrians a chance to get out of the way.

on a real note... glad you got it figured out.

That jig looks cool! Thomas you da man!

My thanks!!!

Eric

I now have all the gears! THOMAS adjusted the 4th and 5th fork on Friday afternoon. I put everything together and took a test drive this afternoon. All gears are great!

Now I'm having an electrical problem, but I'll open a new thread for that.

My thanks to Dr. Evil , THOMAS all those at the transmission clinic that helped me , and all of you whom offered assistance in this thread

Blue SKies and Gren Lights!

Eric Read

I can't believe you made Thomas work in the dark like that!