ok, I've decided to go 5-lug (phone dials). this will be on a stock-body car, but I might roll the fenders a little(<1") if the rims need it.

I plan to re-drill the rear hubs or buy some that are already drilled.

on the front I hear often how bad adapters are, but would they work as a stop-gap until I find a 911 front end?

I know 74+ front ends are what we are supposed to look for, is there a specific model to avoid?
what is the going price for a 911 front end?

I was basically thinking of getting just the strut tower and calipers. but do I need the whole steering rack?

will my -4 ball joints, tie rod ends, shocks(koni yellow), etc bolt up? these are new, so I 'd hate to replace them if they are still usable on a 911 front end.

Why don't you just get the re-drilled front rotors from Eric? They would be much better than adapters. As far as 911 stuff you only need the struts (+inserts), hubs and brakes. All the rest of the stuff from your 914 will fit. You'll have to decide if you want to go 3" or 3.5". I paid $700 for a complete 3.5" front end with the swaybar and aluminum cross member. It's way cheaper to go with Eric's rotors. The bigger vented rotors and brakes are the only reason to go with the 911 parts. You'll have to decide if it's worth it. Billet hubs are another way to go if you have a bunch of cash wrapped up in 914 inserts and you want the bigger brakes.

If you have a good front end, another option is to just buy the 5 lug hubs for the front (keep your front suspension). Made/sold by Brad on the club site. But 3 yrs ago, I paid $600 for a complete front suspension, incl aluminum cross member. I thought it was a good price for something ready to go.

For a standard narrow bodied 4 cylinder car I would not look for the 74+ unit. I would look for 911T struts loaded with M-Calipers and Vented rotors.

1970 through 1973 would be perfect.

You get:

Boge struts that will accept any aftermarket insert
Vented rotors that never fail on a 914
M-Calipers. You could also bolt on our Brembo upgrades in the future.
Keep the A-Arms for proper 914 spring rates
Late model ball joint recepticals

I've seen them for $150-300 for the struts.

I think it's a perfect match for a narrow car. Porsche did too which is why it's on every stock 914-6.

You could go with the later units (with the 3.5" spacing and A-Calipers) if you plan this to be a wide body car with more hp later.

914 inserts don't fit in 911 struts. You'll have to change those out. Thats one of the reasons the billet hubs are nice. You can keep your 914 struts and run the 911 vented rotor.

It depends on the 911 struts you get.
I put 71 911T struts on my 914 and they work fine with my Koni Yellow Gas Sport inserts.
All the Boge struts I have come across are the same dimensionally although some have different gland nuts so you might have to hunt down a gland nut that fits your insert and the strut. With Koni or Bilstien struts are limited to Koni or Bilstien inserts.

Jim

if it's $600 for a 911 front end then I'll have to consider the 5 lug hubs an option. but for that 600 I would think I'd get the calipers too, and maybe a usable set of inserts, then I could sell the 914 koni yellows and stock (rebuilt by eric) calipers to help fund it. the 550 for just hubs is a little steep

why will 74+ struts not fit under the narrow cars? this is the first time I've heard that. I really don't want to go flares on this one any time soon. and the hp will be under 150 for a long time I'm thinking.

that said, the 70-73 setup sounds ideal, especially if there's a brake upgrade option later...

this may have to be back-burner until next year, I want to drive the car, now, not just find more parts, and spend more cash.

Don't forget rear wheel bearings while your doing it. There are 2 types of wheel adapters really. Cast aluminum ones that will probably come apart at the worst time, and actual billet hub-centric ones. I am using the later as my stop gap. I am running later dials, 16X7 all the way around. I needed the spacer anyway. The adapters are 1" thick. I have had ZERO problems so far, although you won't be able to autocross it.

ok, where do you get these usable adapters? I'm not worried about auto-x if I really wanted to I could swap back to 4-lug for auto-x with adapters...

but I'm not dropping $500(AA) for adapters when that will be most of what a conversion will cost...

I wouldn't use the adapters in the rear anyway, no hub-centric on the car. I got mine here on the site for like 100 bucks. What kind of time frame are you doing it? As soon as I get new front rotors and re-drill them i'll be getting rid of them. Or put a WTB on the classifieds.

Keep in mind when buying the struts you know what conditions the parts are in. If not, expect to replace or turn the rotors, rebuild the calipers, new pads and new wheel bearings and soft brake lines - don't forget the lug nuts too.

I'm keeping an eye open, but this isn't a priority... lmk if you sell yours before I do the conversion.

my fronts are the late-style(hub centric) now, is losing the hubcentric ability a big deal? it seems like it would be, but I dunno.

I know what you mean about the rears... I was planning on redrilling or buying eric's rear hubs.

these are the early phone dials I'm going to be using, I believe. not sure how much spacer is required to make them "work", vs how much is "recommended" to look right...




yea, I'm keeping that +new bearings, new a-arm bushings and rear bearings all in mind. I may rebuild the calipers myself, but was planning on new rotors or at least turning them if they are in good enough shape.

the brake lines are all new already, but I hadn't thought of the lug nuts as a big expense, I'll have to take a look.

If they are the early (pre 87?) offset, I don't know. 6" might be ok with adapters, don't think the 7s would work. All I have to go on from personal experience is the later 16X7's.

They'll fit. I think what Eric meant was that he didn't see a need to go with the 3.5" spacing and A caliper on a narrow body car.

ok, that makes sense. I was told 74+ because of so many caliper options. but I think anything vents is made of pure win for the type of hp I'll be running.

If you hold your breath long enough, maybe you'll find a deal like I got for $450 on ebay:

911 Carrera front end includes a-arms, torsion bars, aluminum crossmember (with horn attached), sway bar, struts, vented rotors, 3.5in calipers, tie rods, and steering rack. Seller thought it was from a mid to late 80's 911.

Rear end includes swing arms, complete axles w/inner/outer CVs, 4-to-5 lug converted hub and rotor, 914-4 caliper.

nice score, grats!!

Phone dials come in different flavors , I have a set of 6J X 15 36ET ( offset )Porsche part # 911-361-023-46 no need for spacers or adapters . HW Gunner had a set of black powder coated IIRC 6J X 15 for sale at one time on e-bay , maybe sold.
Phones can be found from 944 early offset -23 , late offset 52.3 , most of them being 7J X 15 , later 16 . For a narrow body , which I have , the 6J X 15 Phones are the way to go , no spacer , adapetrs if you change to 5 lug .You could get a set of fuchs , but not as cheap as phones, cookie cutters are cheap also , but I haven't done any research on them , BTW I have a set of 944 7J X15 52.3ET with 215 tires , I tried them out on a 5 lug mockup with 21 mm spacers , common on 944's, they fit without any rubbing but with only a finger thickness of room between the outside fender and tire,about the same on inner fenderwell this was driver's side, so..a thinner tire width on the 7 wide would yield more clearence I would hazard a guess. It all depends on the money you want to spend on 5 lug conversion, it could be done cheaper if you watch for deals , takes a little longer , than jumping on it with a dead line.
Good Hunting...

Jaxdream

yea I'm taking my time, I just wanted to know what to look for. I'm hoping for a deal, maybe someone even wants to trade for a 1.8 and a Djet setup

This is what I am running Wayne (minus 944 rear bar):

S-Calipers and all. I plan on using a 914 conversion in the rear...converted hubs for now in the front until I can get the SC suspension cleaned up and the calipers rebuilt.

I am pretty excited....and trying to keep from rushing it, so I can do it all the right way. I will succeed....but having to use patience sucks sometimes!

nice, what year is that off of?

A $400 76 914 Chalon ....not sure exactly the year of 911 though. It is pretty nice knowing it is a direct bolt in though. Hopefully I will have the time and $ to get it all cleaned up shortly...my '75 was not born with a sway bar and I can really tell.

I am buying this setup from Bob (burton73) off of ArmyDude's car. Just for the rears and to run on the fronts until I can get the SC front ready to go


...now to find a good deal on some decent 14" tires!

I was wondering when someone was going to jump on Bob's 5 lug deal. It was priced right. I was eyeballing that for the last week. I was thinking of picking it up just for the rears myself.

Yeah, I couldn't pass it up knowing that I had a 5 lug project on the burner.

I've been offered this setup for $240 what do you reckon. It's from a 1973 model, so has the M calipers. Is this a good setup to use??

I'd probably buy a local front end for 240 even if it's 70-73. cheapest I've seen so far is 350 and would have to be shipped , and didn't have the calipers.

Shipping on the front ends is a little pricey because of weight and amount of boxes needed, i was shipped three boxes, one was a bicycle box which are fairly large. I bought my complete 911 front end(87 carrera) for 350, but had to have it shipped from georgia, i think total it was around 500

yep shipping a front end is about as much fun as shipping an engine... I think I'm going to do a junk yard crawl and see what I can find.

That setup is fine but you only really need the struts and brakes. Have the seller show you pictures of the spindles to make sure they're clean. It would be a bummer to buy them just to find out the spindles are all buggered up.

To be safe you'll end up replacing the bearings, disks, rebuilding the brake calipers, new pads, brake lines, 19mm MC, and maybe ball joints, tie rod ends, A-arm bushings and inserts. The price of the 911 pieces are really just a small fraction of the true price of the swap.

Rod, that's p-e-r-f-e-c-t.

You really only need the struts and hubs so you could feasibly sell off the a-arms, rack and crossbar etc. to easily bring your cost into the sub $200 range.

Thats what I thought. I'll get them bought - either for this car or a future project... In fact, perfect you can answer here - I am really in two minds whether to do a five lug conversion or not. I really like the 4 bolt fuchs that are on the car at the moment, people seem to do a 5lug conversion as a matter of course, and I wouldn't mind keeping this car standard looking and factory - my current order from you is to refurb the current setup, so retaining the 4 lug fuchs.

The 4 lugs wheels I have are now in perfect condition after a detail and polish and I'm tempted to leave them in position, rather than 'upgrade?' to 5-lug.

The common secondary reason (over the wheels) to upgrade to 5 lug is to increase brake performance, now if the standard 914 braking system is in top notch condition is there actually a need to upgrade? - I only ever intend running this car with 200hp maximum.

So is the 5 lug conversion worth it with 200hp for the brake upgrade, or should I stay 4 lug?

I'd want more brakes with 200hp. you can't have too much brakes or hp imo tho

Well... it's at least twice the HP that brake system was designed for. That said, a lot depends on contact patch to the ground. This is why I never tend to stray on the elaborate side when the car will be a narrow bodied car.

Bottom line, your stock brakes in tip-top condition can pretty much handle whatever you can dish out in a narrow configuration. 200hp is a lot though. Use Porsche as your guide. With the 914-6 they went to a vented rotor and the M-Caliper. It has the same pad size as a stock 914 (with the exception of the rear) but it has better cooling. Fade and cooling issues have never been a 914 problem though (unless you're circuit racing and on the brakes hard).

You could get a suspension like that and upgrade to 3" Brembo calipers later if you want the advantages of the larger pad that Porsche's 3.5" configurations (S-Caliper and A-Caliper) afford you. Being Boge it will be able to take almost any strut insert as well, Boge, Koni, Bilstein. Totally configurable if you go wide body or...

this is going faster than I thought.
started with the wheels for a great price.
I got a set of the aluminum alfa brakes
a set of rear rotors that will need to be turned. - $50 classifieds
then scored the struts on ebay tonight, for $100 shipped

I still need to get the front hubs off a 70-73 (<$50)

then rear hubs redrilled, new front rotors(or gently used) and wheel bearings all around.

am I forgetting something?

lug nuts, front bearing washers & nuts, dust caps, and backing plates (if you decide to use them)

I posted this info already somewhere but anyway I found a bilstein insert thats for both a 911 and 914 boge strut. I did need a gland nut to make them fit. The insert number is F4-P36-0113 HO. The gland nut is B4-B36-U242E2 from bilstein. I found the alfa brembos on ebay in NY. The factory brembos come with a good black coating on them if they are in good shape.

yes, I believe the early struts I bought, being boge, should take the koni's I already have in my 914