The trick to the valet key?, Special "valet" wafer? |
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The trick to the valet key?, Special "valet" wafer? |
Doug Leggins |
Feb 14 2005, 09:03 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,358 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Nashville, Indiana Member No.: 261 Region Association: None |
I've been searching through info on the red and black keys to determine which key should do what. It seems that the black key should work all locks and that the red key should work the ignition and the doors but not the glove box or either trunk. Sound right?
I have spent a bit of time rekeying the locks for my car-But still not done (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) . I've gotten pretty familiar with the 5 different wafers. I first thought that there were only 4 wafers, 1-4. But, noticed that there is a 5th wafer. I think that this wafer (along with the key blank configuration) is what makes the red-valet key work as it does. Is the wafer on the left the one that allows the valet key to work??? Attached image(s) |
redshift |
Feb 14 2005, 09:15 PM
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#2
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Bless the Hell out of you! Group: Members Posts: 10,926 Joined: 29-June 03 Member No.: 869 |
The keys aren't supposed to work.
M |
Doug Leggins |
Feb 14 2005, 09:53 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,358 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Nashville, Indiana Member No.: 261 Region Association: None |
That would have been too easy (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) And then I wouldn't have found out what a PITA rekeying the ignition is (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif) The little roll pins are difficult!!! I got lucky and was able to get the roll pins out cleanly on one lock. And I think that a 5/64 3/8" roll key will work as a replacement. I'll know for sure after I get a black key cut and reassemble the ignition lock - after testing with the new key!! |
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sj914 |
Feb 14 2005, 11:16 PM
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#4
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 805 Joined: 20-August 03 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 1,053 |
Whatcha use? a nail for a drift. Mine came out easily with the proper size pin punch. |
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John |
Feb 14 2005, 11:32 PM
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#5
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
Perhaps I am mistaking (but I think not), but the red and black keys are cut exactly the same. The "difference" between the red and black keys is the grooves in the sides of the key.
If I'm not wrong here, the "red" key has an extra groove (on both sides) where the keys are cut, while the black keys have a groove only on one side. This would validate your finding with the "offset" in the "wafer" that you show. If all this is correct, the Black key would be the "master" key while the Red key is the Vallet key. The "cut" portions of the Red keys are nearly centered on the key while the "cut" portions of the Black keys are set to one side. The Red key with it's cut centered would "lift" the "wafer" too high and not allow the lock to turn. This seems logical as the Black key on my Turbo is the one with the light (master), and the Red one is the same as the 914 Red key. So to make a long story short.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) |
McMark |
Feb 15 2005, 12:41 AM
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#6
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
I'd like to hear more opinions/facts about this one. Anyone else?
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scotty914 |
Feb 15 2005, 01:12 AM
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#7
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suby torque rules Group: Members Posts: 1,525 Joined: 20-July 03 From: maryland, the land of 25 year Member No.: 924 |
you are partly correct, but the only places the valet waffers should be are in the trunk lock, glove lock and hood lock. also the black key has an extra tumbler that the red key does not ( i tried to take a pic but it would not work ) and the only places the extra tumbler works is the trunks and glove. basicly they provided 2 types of security, one the tummblers 2 the extra tumbler. now when most places cut a spare key from a black key it will produce the extra tumbler, so thats when the valet tumbler comes in.
BTW even the locks that dont open with the valet key only have 2 of the notched tumblers, or they did from the factory. anything else has been rekeyed. if you ask how i know this i have rekeyed quite a few locks, even a NOS trunk lock and they all except one only had 2 of them.now some people i have seen have taken a trunk lock cylinder and put it in a door handle, will work fine till you try the valet key |
markb |
Feb 15 2005, 01:27 AM
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#8
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914less :( Group: Members Posts: 5,449 Joined: 22-January 03 From: Nipomo, CA Member No.: 180 Region Association: Central California |
Great info! Thanks, guys. Now I gotta clean up all my wafers & find the notched ones. I guess that means I take my reading glasses to the shop tomorrow. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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Doug Leggins |
Feb 15 2005, 11:34 AM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,358 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Nashville, Indiana Member No.: 261 Region Association: None |
Yes I used a nail for a drift. Not a great idea, but I couldn't find a small enough punch so I cut off a nail, filed the end and used it. It actually worked fairly well on the first lock. The second lock didn't go so well. Now I've got mangled roll pins stuck in the tumbler. It was a spare so not a big deal. |
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Doug Leggins |
Feb 15 2005, 04:06 PM
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#10
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,358 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Nashville, Indiana Member No.: 261 Region Association: None |
Please try to explain this extra tumbler. |
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sj914 |
Feb 15 2005, 04:10 PM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 805 Joined: 20-August 03 From: San Jose, CA Member No.: 1,053 |
Please explain, I'm lost now. Both my Master and Valet key are cut the same, just on different blanks. |
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Root_Werks |
Feb 15 2005, 05:14 PM
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#12
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,321 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Hmm, I have a 914 at home that has working red and black keys. I could take a look, snap some pics? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)
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scotty914 |
Feb 15 2005, 06:32 PM
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#13
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suby torque rules Group: Members Posts: 1,525 Joined: 20-July 03 From: maryland, the land of 25 year Member No.: 924 |
okay here is a pic of a valet and a regular key not from the same car. but the line shows the shoulder and you can see a longer shoulder on the valet key
Attached image(s) |
Eric_Shea |
Feb 15 2005, 11:06 PM
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#14
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,275 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Doug,
Those wafers look D-I-R-T-Y. WTF Over? Get on it would ya? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/w00t.gif) |
Doug Leggins |
Feb 16 2005, 10:47 AM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Benefactors Posts: 1,358 Joined: 6-February 03 From: Nashville, Indiana Member No.: 261 Region Association: None |
That must be the before cleaning pic -LOL! Scott - I'm trying to follow what you're saying but not quite there yet. Once I get my black key blank and take another look maybe I'll understand. Can someone post a side by side pic of a red and black key set that work properly? |
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Root_Werks |
Feb 16 2005, 11:07 AM
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#16
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Village Idiot Group: Members Posts: 8,321 Joined: 25-May 04 From: About 5NM from Canada Member No.: 2,105 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Well, I forgot to take pic's but the one above shows the keys pretty well. I have them in hand and both apear to be cut the same. Even the "collar" or "shoulder" is the same. the only difference I can see is the red one has an extra "grove" on each side. My keys work like they should. Black does everything, red only doors and ign. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) |
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John |
Feb 19 2005, 12:18 AM
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#17
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
My factory original keys are cut the same. I have never had to re-key any of my silver cars' locks. There is no "extra" cut.
You must compare the black and red keys for the same car/lock cylinder. I don't know or recall how many of the wafers (tumblers) have the security groove and it does not really matter. The black and red keys are cut IDENTICALLY. The only difference between the KEYS is what has already been pointed out (the offset of the cuts made on the key blanks). Attached image(s) |
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