New Engine Builder, who would you use? Options

[RFoulds]

Who is out there that can reliably build and warranty a completely new 2270?

Preferable near me in SoCal..

[RFoulds]

Opinions of these options. CB Performance. FAT/ Rimco. Scat Performance.
?

[GregAmy]

I had a 2056 built by FAT over the winter of 2020/2021. Seems like a good quality build. I got a chance to remove the rockers, pushrods, and tubes to install Tangerine's stainless tubes and chromoly pushrods and got a decent look and everything was installed nicely.

First oil change at 100 miles was clean, next one at 3000 and cut open the filter and it was clean. Took a couple of weekend trips with it this year, no issues.

I'd use them again.

[Mark Henry]

To bad you're too far away, I'm just starting a spec turn key build 2320cc, but it won't be cheap and shipping's a bitch.
I don't usually like to sell my engines unless I install them myself. Just an FYI

Soup to nuts build:
914 2.0 case, clearanced
Raby/DPR welded 80mm crank, nitrated
new flywheel
full balance
SCAT chevy rods
german bearings, Clevite rod bearings
KB's 96mm (Nickies option)
Raby cam and lifters, (similar to WEB 163/86b)
44x38mm 2.0 heads, dual springs, SS valves, hardened retainers, seats, keepers, shims, etc
Manton PR, Porsche adjusters, mod 1.7 rockers, spacers and all the valve train kit
KEP stage 1 pressure plate, stock Sachs disc
new cooler
All 2.0 tin and shroud, fully powder coated (black with silver shroud), all the little 914rubber bits, rebuilt Bosch alt, etc, etc, etc.

44mm Webers, rebuilt Italian, tall manifolds, cast filter tops
Tangirine cable linkage
Mallory dizzy, modified with Pertronix igniter
Pertronix coil, MSD (etc) option
Magnacore plug wires
Tangirine 1-3/4" header, ceramic coated with SS evo muffler and hanger.
I likely missed a few things.

Expected HP ballpark figure 170hp .... or if you like I could lie and say 220hp like some builders. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

[infraredcalvin]

I had a 2056 built by FAT over the winter of 2020/2021. Seems like a good quality build. I got a chance to remove the rockers, pushrods, and tubes to install Tangerine's stainless tubes and chromoly pushrods and got a decent look and everything was installed nicely.

First oil change at 100 miles was clean, next one at 3000 and cut open the filter and it was clean. Took a couple of weekend trips with it this year, no issues.

I'd use them again.

Another fat build (race motor) right after GregAmy’s. Haven’t fired it yet, but happy with the build to this point. Prepare to wait though…

[RFoulds]

Sounds great! What kinda price would you expect for a build like that?

To bad you're too far away, I'm just starting a spec turn key build 2320cc, but it won't be cheap and shipping's a bitch.
I don't usually like to sell my engines unless I install them myself. Just an FYI

Soup to nuts build:
914 2.0 case, clearanced
Raby/DPR welded 80mm crank, nitrated
new flywheel
full balance
SCAT chevy rods
german bearings, Clevite rod bearings
KB's 96mm (Nickies option)
Raby cam and lifters, (similar to WEB 163/86b)
44x38mm 2.0 heads, dual springs, SS valves, hardened retainers, seats, keepers, shims, etc
Manton PR, Porsche adjusters, mod 1.7 rockers, spacers and all the valve train kit
KEP stage 1 pressure plate, stock Sachs disc
new cooler
All 2.0 tin and shroud, fully powder coated (black with silver shroud), all the little 914rubber bits, rebuilt Bosch alt, etc, etc, etc.

44mm Webers, rebuilt Italian, tall manifolds, cast filter tops
Tangirine cable linkage
Mallory dizzy, modified with Pertronix igniter
Pertronix coil, MSD (etc) option
Magnacore plug wires
Tangirine 1-3/4" header, ceramic coated with SS evo muffler and hanger.
I likely missed a few things.

Expected HP ballpark figure 170hp .... or if you like I could lie and say 220hp like some builders. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving-girl.gif)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

we build many 914 engines here but only stock fuel injected versions
jake does a good job on the high performance ones

[drem914]

we build many 914 engines here but only stock fuel injected versions
jake does a good job on the high performance ones

One of his more recent FB posts Jake was stepping away from custom type IV engine direct orders and just build what he wants and then will release them through LN Eng. to handle the distribution, paperwork and customer contact when and if they become available.


"No more direct human interaction for me. I am moving to my final engine, one displacement, one stage, and one proven result. All will be the same, and I’ll build one when I want to. No more orders, no more timelines. No more budgets. No more opinions, comments or telephones and messages. No more groups, forums, or bullshit!"
"I sold the T4 Store to LN Engineering in 2012. They will now sell my engines, in the very limited quantities that they will be built."

[930cabman]

we build many 914 engines here but only stock fuel injected versions
jake does a good job on the high performance ones

One of his more recent FB posts Jake was stepping away from custom type IV engine direct orders and just build what he wants and then will release them through LN Eng. to handle the distribution, paperwork and customer contact when and if they become available.


"No more direct human interaction for me. I am moving to my final engine, one displacement, one stage, and one proven result. All will be the same, and I’ll build one when I want to. No more orders, no more timelines. No more budgets. No more opinions, comments or telephones and messages. No more groups, forums, or bullshit!"
"I sold the T4 Store to LN Engineering in 2012. They will now sell my engines, in the very limited quantities that they will be built."

Too bad some of us never never learned to play in the sandbox .....

[drem914]

we build many 914 engines here but only stock fuel injected versions
jake does a good job on the high performance ones

One of his more recent FB posts Jake was stepping away from custom type IV engine direct orders and just build what he wants and then will release them through LN Eng. to handle the distribution, paperwork and customer contact when and if they become available.


"No more direct human interaction for me. I am moving to my final engine, one displacement, one stage, and one proven result. All will be the same, and I’ll build one when I want to. No more orders, no more timelines. No more budgets. No more opinions, comments or telephones and messages. No more groups, forums, or bullshit!"
"I sold the T4 Store to LN Engineering in 2012. They will now sell my engines, in the very limited quantities that they will be built."

Too bad some of us never never learned to play in the sandbox .....

Well at upwards of $40k now an engine I guess you can do that.

[mepstein]

we build many 914 engines here but only stock fuel injected versions
jake does a good job on the high performance ones

One of his more recent FB posts Jake was stepping away from custom type IV engine direct orders and just build what he wants and then will release them through LN Eng. to handle the distribution, paperwork and customer contact when and if they become available.


"No more direct human interaction for me. I am moving to my final engine, one displacement, one stage, and one proven result. All will be the same, and I’ll build one when I want to. No more orders, no more timelines. No more budgets. No more opinions, comments or telephones and messages. No more groups, forums, or bullshit!"
"I sold the T4 Store to LN Engineering in 2012. They will now sell my engines, in the very limited quantities that they will be built."

Too bad some of us never never learned to play in the sandbox .....

That’s the plan we have for our 911 engines. Build what we want and then sell it to whoever wants it. I know exactly where Jake is coming from and I applaud him.

[Mark Henry]

we build many 914 engines here but only stock fuel injected versions
jake does a good job on the high performance ones

One of his more recent FB posts Jake was stepping away from custom type IV engine direct orders and just build what he wants and then will release them through LN Eng. to handle the distribution, paperwork and customer contact when and if they become available.


"No more direct human interaction for me. I am moving to my final engine, one displacement, one stage, and one proven result. All will be the same, and I’ll build one when I want to. No more orders, no more timelines. No more budgets. No more opinions, comments or telephones and messages. No more groups, forums, or bullshit!"
"I sold the T4 Store to LN Engineering in 2012. They will now sell my engines, in the very limited quantities that they will be built."

Too bad some of us never never learned to play in the sandbox .....

That’s the plan we have for our 911 engines. Build what we want and then sell it to whoever wants it. I know exactly where Jake is coming from and I applaud him.

I'm going the same way, wife retires in one year and we plan to travel. I have about 2 years of work on the books and I'm also going to spec build a '72 /6 conversion, after that I'm going to get real picky about the jobs I take on.
The engine above I happen to have everything and it's all cleaned and ready to go together, but even then it will still be 3-4 months as I have other work that needs to be done first.

[930cabman]

Am I sensing a void in the marketplace for this service?

[brant]

I don't think its a void.
I think that the hassle, skill, parts, and communication take more than 24 hours a day
and the prices need to reflect that to justify the process

the market is moving..
and this is an adjustment.

there are places still to have motors build.
my race shop has a 2 year wait list... they insist on installing, breaking it in, and dyno-ing the motor.

the cost is HUGE...
and no warranty

I just don't think the effort involved by a skilled person or shop... will support 5K engines with warranties.... maybe china can back fill that niche? (not likely)

we are loosing soo much skill
I've been building a 50year old motorcycle for a few years
every one of the specialist shops are amazing... but they are also very old owners with very unique knowledge...

all of them will be gone in 5-10 years
all of their knowledge will be gone too.


owners can do it themselves... or pay the pro's what they earn through hard work
$$$$$

[mepstein]

Am I sensing a void in the marketplace for this service?

There is but at the same time, it’s not an easy service to provide.
Parts are hard to get and labor to do it right isn’t cheap. There is a much bigger market to build 911 engines and the owners tend to have deeper pockets.

It’s very similar to restoring a chassis. Metalwork and paint all cost the same for materials and labor but easier to justify on a $200k car (911) vs 50k (914).

Eric at PMB is putting out some top level cars both four and six. I would ask him about his engine services.

[914_teener]

Am I sensing a void in the marketplace for this service?

There is but at the same time, it’s not an easy service to provide.
Parts are hard to get and labor to do it right isn’t cheap. There is a much bigger market to build 911 engines and the owners tend to have deeper pockets.

It’s very similar to restoring a chassis. Metalwork and paint all cost the same for materials and labor but easier to justify on a $200k car (911) vs 50k (914).

Eric at PMB is putting out some top level cars both four and six. I would ask him about his engine services.

I think it's more than that. It's the way people are nowdays as well.

It's like one of the posts I saw that was since moved and shut down.


The guy is one of the nicest people I know....yet over the internet someone...also unamed posts a complaint about a favor he was doing....the OP thought of it as a service and a busness.

It's about the relationship.....nothing more. Who wants to deal with BS like that?

NOT me.

Eric has had a fair share of that BS including all the employee problems....ect ....ect. He does great work but more....a human being and great guy.

[Superhawk996]

Bottom line:

Ya all make lousy customers for the average engine builder. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

Too needy, too demanding, and too willing to sue the engine builder for damage that you created for yourself (i.e. didn't fill with oil, didn't break in properly, over-rev on cold engines, etc.).

This is a natural outcome of a society has become less civil and overly litigious. You (We) cannot force those with hard acquired skills and talents to work for bottom dollar pricing and put up with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif) .

[Superhawk996]

my race shop has a 2 year wait list... they insist on installing, breaking it in, and dyno-ing the motor.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Yup, quickly becoming standard practice. Mainly as a means to protect themselves from litigation.

Priced a dyno lately? Not cheap. That overhead has to be covered in the cost of the engine.

It used to be way less common to have to have a dyno, but this is quickly becoming the norm for any good engine builder.

[mepstein]

We just built a 3.2. We probably won’t dyno it but we did install in a car and already ran it for 50 miles. Will probably do another 50 and then pull it out to sell. It’s a lot easier than finding a small leak or trying to tune once it’s with the buyer.

And it does run great!

We have no intention to build T4 engines.

[Shivers]

Who is out there that can reliably build and warranty a completely new 2270?

Preferable near me in SoCal..

I had scat counter balance my crankshaft, rebuild my rods, lighten my flywheel, and balance the lot. They did a good job for me.