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> Learned something new, tire temperatures
Randal
post Nov 21 2003, 05:57 PM
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I bought one of those infrared heat-measuring guns and thought I was really pretty cool out there measuring the temperature (inside, middle, outside) on my tires, only to discover from Tony that the infrared guns are not the way to go. It was also fun at Buttonwillow to measure the blacktop temperature (140).

Now, in order to get a more accurate temperature reading, I have to get one of those probe-measuring devices. Which unit has worked for you and where do you find them?
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Brad Roberts
post Nov 21 2003, 06:01 PM
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The key is.. infrared works. It's not as consistant as the probe mainly because you wont hit the same spots over and over again bending over the fender pointing it. Once you use the probe style.. you will hit the same spot every time.


I know a lot of pro teams who use a infrared. They dont really care about the actual number. They are looking for consistancy around the car across the tire. They are looking for a number not the real to life temp.


B
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TimT
post Nov 21 2003, 06:55 PM
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Infrared is fine, like Brad says. Just be consitant in using it, try to shoot the same spots on you tires. The temp is important, more important though is having the temp even across the tire.
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Jeroen
post Nov 21 2003, 09:52 PM
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Ok, I'm having a related debate about tire temps and pressures on a dutch bbs

The temp of the thread is highest where the thread is loaded most right?
So, if the inside is hotter than the outside, the inside is doing more work than the out side

Correct me if I'm wrong please... This so called tire expert I'm chatting with is so full of bullshit that I'm starting to confuse myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

cheers,

Jeroen
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Brad Roberts
post Nov 21 2003, 10:00 PM
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Um... yeah. Pretty easy common sense answer. Heat is generated in the area doing the most work. The whole idea is to have a tire that is evenly distributing the load across the tire.

Too much inside heat and I would say too much negative camber. Stand the tire up.


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Jeroen
post Nov 21 2003, 10:08 PM
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Yeah, that's what I thought I knew (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
This guy is supposed to be some head-huncho at a tire chain, but he's so full o shit...

Thanks for clearing it up

cheers,

Jeroen
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Brad Roberts
post Nov 21 2003, 10:10 PM
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Tire chain ?? He runs a tire store ??


b
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Jeroen
post Nov 21 2003, 10:14 PM
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Top-management posistion...
You won't believe the crap he's telling people... but hey, he's the expert (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

cheers,

Jeroen
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Brad Roberts
post Nov 21 2003, 10:27 PM
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For a tire store ?? correct ??

You made reference to 'tire engineer' earlier. Ask him how much time he has spent with Yokohoma/Michelin/Goodyear tire engineers who support professional racing events.


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Jeroen
post Nov 21 2003, 10:48 PM
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No, he's not an engineer... just a self proclaimed expert (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
And even I was enough of an expert to see right through him... scary (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

The time he spent with the engineers (if any) was probably wasted on chit chat about the weather (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

cheers,

Jeroen
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Brad Roberts
post Nov 21 2003, 11:01 PM
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Ha ha. So far.. the Yokohama rep for SoCal is one of the best around. He actually goes out of his way to get different compounds for the teams.

B
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Tony C
post Nov 25 2003, 11:13 PM
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Geez, that's funny boys, I have NEVER seen an infared unit in ANY tire engineers hands. I firmly stand on what I told Randal. Don't belive me call Hoosier, Toyo, Kumho, ect and speak to their tech department.

-tony
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Brad Roberts
post Nov 26 2003, 12:27 AM
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I think it will work fine for Randal. It doesnt work for engineers (you are 100% correct... I have never seen one walking around with one either) I say it will work fine for him because he is limited in his adjustments at the track. The teams rely on the engineers info to make hasty changes at a pro event... Randal is ways off.

Had he asked me or you prior to buying his infrared gun.. we both would have told him to buy the stick version. I had good luck with the small Longacre setup that Frey sold.


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nealnorlack
post Nov 26 2003, 02:36 AM
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Hi,
I just recently attended a tech session at Tech Art in LA and there was a rep from Michelin there. He recommmended the probe type. He said when the car comes in the heat starts to "wick away" from the tire immediately and you can't get an accurate reading with the infra red type. I don't know much about tire temps myself but it seems infra red would work ok if you just wanted a camparison temp. I was interested to learn that he also recommended an analog tire gauge rather than a digital gauge. I thought the digital would be more accurate. It was a good tech session. There was a guy there from Brembo who was very knowlegable and I learned alot. I can't afford any of the stuff they had there but I learned alot just the same.
Cheers, Elliot
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J P Stein
post Nov 26 2003, 03:51 AM
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Yes. I have a problem with my tire engineer.

As soon as I pull into the staging lanes after an AX pass, he's on them tires like flies on sh....
Then starts the harangue......" You need .342 deg more negative camber in the left front, 2 psi more & 3psi less in the left front & left rear respectivly, both the jounce & rebound are too stiff in the right rear, aaand your washing out the front end by over braking into that hairpin. I don't know why I bother with such an oaf"

I give him my best dumbfounded stare....even manage to drool, sometimes.
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r_towle
post Nov 26 2003, 12:42 PM
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Jeroen,
I would simply say that the laws of physics states that friction causes heat. The area on the tire that is experiencing or producing the most friction will generate the most heat.

I would love to see his response to that...

Rich
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Jeroen
post Nov 26 2003, 04:42 PM
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I already mentioned him that...

His response?
"The contact patch will cool down faster because the heat will sink into the road/track surface... The non-contact patch will hold the radiant heat"
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

He ain't a racist (AFAIK) but he sure sounds like Alfred (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

cheers,

Jeroen
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r_towle
post Nov 26 2003, 06:25 PM
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Sound like he's spending to much time at the "coffee shops" in Holland..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/givemebeer.gif)
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Jeroen
post Nov 26 2003, 06:27 PM
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The debate went on for 5 BBS pages...
In the end I told him he was full of shit... He was pretty pissed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

cheers,

Jeroen
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Katmanken
post Nov 26 2003, 07:10 PM
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Can you say bullshitter....er... I mean Marketing Manager" boys and girls? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

Don't have to know anything about the product, just talk a good line.

We Engin-nerds call em "Sales Weenies" cuz that's where they come from.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Ken
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