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> Someone pissed off Jake & Len, replicating LE heads
davep
post Nov 25 2008, 02:07 PM
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a new thread on Air Cooled Technology:

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/show...23001#post23001

it was not a smart move on someones part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
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ONTHEGRIND
post Nov 26 2008, 12:10 PM
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You should have never created this thread...
If I was having some sort of problems last thing I'd want is it on the INTERNET..
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LarryR
post Nov 26 2008, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE(ONTHEGRIND @ Nov 26 2008, 10:10 AM) *

You should have never created this thread...
If I was having some sort of problems last thing I'd want is it on the INTERNET..


I would argue the opposite if you want to point out the culprit and discourage use of their products.

However, I have read every part of this thread and would not know the person to avoid...
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brer
post Nov 26 2008, 01:34 PM
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QUOTE(LarryR @ Nov 26 2008, 10:14 AM) *

QUOTE(ONTHEGRIND @ Nov 26 2008, 10:10 AM) *

You should have never created this thread...
If I was having some sort of problems last thing I'd want is it on the INTERNET..


I would argue the opposite if you want to point out the culprit and discourage use of their products.

However, I have read every part of this thread and would not know the person to avoid...



I was thinking about this exact thing and was also wanting comment on the difference between an exact digital reproduction of a head and a head that was independently designed incorporating data observed from one or multiple different example of other heads.

The other day I was looking at a collection of port shapes cast from exceptionally ported dragster heads. All of these were tagged and documented and used regularly for reference and study by the person who owned them. Some were taken from blown heads but he also paid good money for alot of the heads they came from. I'm sure if you looked at this persons work you would find elements of other peoples work, which in itself is not unethical in any way. The ideas and techniques may have been individual in application but were definitely not unique to any one port or designer.

Pulling a casting of a port is the way head porting people have done it for years. Its part of the process and is totally in line with the experimental and creative aspects of the work. Digital information is now part of the creative process and I think its fair to extend the practice of casting along with current working methods that utilize the new technology. This is something that already exists within the art of porting.

Taking a silicon casting of a port or digitizing it are the same thing, basically 'COPYING" someones port. But to then take and apply that information wholesale to a product for sale in my opinion is the real ethical transgression, not the casting.

Any head porters want to dispute this? I would like to hear your thoughts.


Of course those who race guard their designs fiercly, but this is the nature of the sport. On the other hand, to offer something for sale publicly means any expectation for secrecy is relinquished and the designer doesn't have any right to attack someone who learns from their work and applies that knowledge.


Duplicating a head for profit is different.

Thats my opinoin as a designer and while I morally agree that their work should not be "carbon copied" and offered for sale I also see a potential for the community to respond in ways that could unfairly affect others in the feild.


What would you think if a new CNC Type 4 head was offered next month? Despite havine zero proof of anything I think I know what my first thought would be. This kinda bugs me and makes me think more details are needed.
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Posts in this topic
davep   Someone pissed off Jake & Len   Nov 25 2008, 02:07 PM
ONTHEGRIND   :rolleyes:   Nov 25 2008, 02:13 PM
p914   a new thread on Air Cooled Technology: http://fo...   Nov 25 2008, 02:13 PM
Drums66   :popcorn:   Nov 25 2008, 02:14 PM
ericread   Just for the record; I didn't do it! Eri...   Nov 25 2008, 02:18 PM
DBCooper   Ididn't either, but that won't go anywhere...   Nov 25 2008, 02:36 PM
jimkelly   oh come on - i was whittleing a 2.0 head out of a ...   Nov 25 2008, 02:38 PM
Thomas J Bliznik   I didn't do it!!!! I recently...   Nov 25 2008, 02:57 PM
r_towle   That sucks. Its happened to him before and it just...   Nov 25 2008, 03:01 PM
Todd Enlund   I guess the nice part of the Internet is that wor...   Nov 25 2008, 03:19 PM
brer   Carbon copying Len's ports is not cool, and th...   Nov 25 2008, 03:42 PM
pete-stevers   i dunno.... i think jake makes a great product, no...   Nov 25 2008, 05:08 PM
Rob Ways   Geez. Jake and Len are good guys. They have more i...   Nov 25 2008, 06:07 PM
HAM Inc   In this digital age we live in, that statement c...   Nov 25 2008, 06:12 PM
904svo   In this digital age we live in, that statement ...   Nov 25 2008, 06:21 PM
kwales   Looks like Jake has branded his products. You go ...   Nov 25 2008, 06:52 PM
914Sixer   Damm, nothing is safe any more! But there is ...   Nov 25 2008, 07:06 PM
Joe Owensby   It is not cool copying something that was develope...   Nov 25 2008, 08:40 PM
Chris Hamilton   Well he certainly knows how to talk big... I don...   Nov 25 2008, 08:54 PM
Jake Raby   For the record: I have never banned anyone from my...   Nov 25 2008, 08:56 PM
DBCooper   Now lets address this: Absolutely incorrect. Peo...   Nov 25 2008, 10:18 PM
SirAndy   No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual pro...   Nov 26 2008, 12:10 AM
CliffBraun   No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual pr...   Nov 26 2008, 12:15 AM
SirAndy   which isn't anything close to the issue here ...   Nov 26 2008, 12:25 AM
NineOneFour   [quote name='SirAndy' post='1105625' date='Nov 25...   Nov 26 2008, 12:30 AM
CliffBraun   [quote name='SirAndy' post='1105625' date='Nov 2...   Nov 26 2008, 12:45 AM
biosurfer1   Was he trying to replicate them for his own use or...   Nov 25 2008, 09:05 PM
Chris Hamilton   Was he trying to replicate them for his own use o...   Nov 25 2008, 09:13 PM
CliffBraun   Was he trying to replicate them for his own use ...   Nov 25 2008, 09:29 PM
brer   Was he trying to replicate them for his own use o...   Nov 25 2008, 09:50 PM
flippa   Kick their ass Jake!!!!!! ...   Nov 25 2008, 09:41 PM
championgt1   Kick their ass Jake!!!!!...   Nov 26 2008, 12:12 AM
Jake Raby   Mr. Hamilton, Are you a Lawyer or just a regular s...   Nov 25 2008, 09:52 PM
Chris Hamilton   Mr. Hamilton, Are you a Lawyer or just a regular ...   Nov 26 2008, 12:20 AM
TimT   wait didn't you post that? on your own site...   Nov 25 2008, 09:57 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   <_<   Nov 25 2008, 10:14 PM
biosurfer1   Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to un...   Nov 25 2008, 10:45 PM
CliffBraun   Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to u...   Nov 25 2008, 10:54 PM
Cevan   Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to u...   Nov 26 2008, 07:15 AM
DBCooper   Porsche would have a better claim against Jake tha...   Nov 25 2008, 10:51 PM
LarryR   I was cloned and had my software engineering secre...   Nov 25 2008, 11:32 PM
George H.   registration is down due to spammer attacks   Nov 26 2008, 12:41 AM
Jake Raby   My forums have been closed to new registrations fo...   Nov 26 2008, 04:38 AM
ArtechnikA   FWIW - it's widely believed (a belief CMW cont...   Nov 26 2008, 06:08 AM
DBCooper   Clearly there are forms of automotive industrial ...   Nov 26 2008, 07:20 AM
HAM Inc   Just for the record, our LE-180 design (so named b...   Nov 26 2008, 09:09 AM
Chris Hamilton   Just for the record, our LE-180 design (so named ...   Nov 26 2008, 09:35 AM
Joe Owensby   Just for the record, our LE-180 design (so named...   Nov 26 2008, 10:22 AM
DBCooper   Try the Google patent search, it's really good...   Nov 26 2008, 10:33 AM
Jake Raby   Very correct, unless they are used in complete e...   Nov 26 2008, 10:33 AM
r_towle   Very correct, unless they are used in complete ...   Nov 26 2008, 11:16 AM
Jake Raby   Correct. We find it funny that the same day we f...   Nov 26 2008, 12:05 PM
ONTHEGRIND   You should have never created this thread... If ...   Nov 26 2008, 12:10 PM
LarryR   You should have never created this thread... If...   Nov 26 2008, 12:14 PM
ONTHEGRIND   You should have never created this thread... I...   Nov 26 2008, 12:25 PM
brer   You should have never created this thread... I...   Nov 26 2008, 01:34 PM
HAM Inc   Yep... I just finished my lunch and now I'm ...   Nov 26 2008, 12:19 PM
r_towle   Not to change the subject, but I know both Jake an...   Nov 26 2008, 12:39 PM
ericread   Not to change the subject, but I know both Jake a...   Nov 26 2008, 01:06 PM
Thomas J Bliznik   Hi All, I really enjoy these posts. Very interes...   Nov 26 2008, 12:51 PM
Jake Raby   Hi All, I really enjoy these posts. Very intere...   Nov 26 2008, 01:16 PM
Twise   I would have just beat his ass. Take care Jake...   Nov 26 2008, 01:37 PM
biosurfer1   I would have just beat his ass. Take care Jake.....   Nov 26 2008, 01:55 PM
Jake Raby   I'd think we'd have to release something...   Nov 26 2008, 02:17 PM
brer   I'd think we'd have to release somethin...   Nov 26 2008, 04:22 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   I cannot log on and read Jakes forum since I am no...   Nov 26 2008, 02:24 PM
Jake Raby   So, someone gets poor reviews when they take up ...   Nov 26 2008, 02:34 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   So, someone gets poor reviews when they take up...   Nov 26 2008, 02:40 PM
CliffBraun   So, someone gets poor reviews when they take u...   Nov 26 2008, 03:10 PM
ArtechnikA   I also enjoy that you've just stated that you...   Nov 26 2008, 03:23 PM
SirAndy   I also enjoy that you've just stated that you...   Nov 26 2008, 05:11 PM
davep   And remember: I started a thread on my private fo...   Nov 26 2008, 03:46 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   And remember: I started a thread on my private f...   Nov 26 2008, 03:56 PM
CliffBraun   And remember: I started a thread on my private f...   Nov 26 2008, 03:58 PM
Jake Raby   The problem is simple. Someone has tried to replic...   Nov 26 2008, 03:10 PM
96740   +1 ------------ I tried to register to read for ...   Nov 26 2008, 03:11 PM
Jake Raby   +1 ------------ I tried to register to read for...   Nov 26 2008, 03:23 PM
96740   Understood. I'm on a couple of forums that...   Nov 26 2008, 04:05 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   Understood. I'm on a couple of forums tha...   Nov 26 2008, 04:09 PM
HAM Inc   Wow! How you drew that conclusion is a bit of...   Nov 26 2008, 04:31 PM
DBCooper   This has been blown WAY out of proportion. From w...   Nov 26 2008, 04:34 PM
davep   From what I read SOMEONE said "Could I buy a...   Nov 26 2008, 06:56 PM
DBCooper   From what I read SOMEONE said "Could I buy ...   Nov 26 2008, 08:08 PM
r_towle   [quote name='davep' post='1105906' date='Nov 26 2...   Nov 26 2008, 08:38 PM
Chris Hamilton   DB... For whatever reason you seem to have a hair...   Nov 26 2008, 08:55 PM
r_towle   DB... For whatever reason you seem to have a hai...   Nov 26 2008, 09:27 PM
SirAndy   For it to be "intellectual property" do...   Nov 26 2008, 11:09 PM
Chris Hamilton   For it to be "intellectual property" d...   Nov 26 2008, 11:16 PM
ArtechnikA   For it to be "intellectual property" d...   Nov 27 2008, 05:14 AM
George H.   DB... For whatever reason you seem to have a hair...   Nov 26 2008, 09:43 PM
DBCooper   It's not possible to go back an re-read the...   Nov 27 2008, 07:53 AM
Jake Raby   My forum is not new, it has over 3,000 members and...   Nov 26 2008, 04:48 PM
tod914   It's great to see people as passionate about t...   Nov 26 2008, 05:47 PM
Rob Ways   In almost every industry, designs get "improv...   Nov 26 2008, 05:47 PM
HAM Inc   DB the info came to me from a credible source. A c...   Nov 27 2008, 10:18 AM
Phoenix 914-6GT   Len, thanks for writing all that. It really helps ...   Nov 27 2008, 12:16 PM
stepuptotheMike   Geez guys. Go eat some turkey and drink some scot...   Nov 27 2008, 01:03 PM
DBCooper   Thanks, Len, excellent and levelheaded explanation...   Nov 28 2008, 07:46 AM
KaptKaos   I still think it strange and incredibly stupid th...   Nov 28 2008, 12:47 PM
RJMII   Len, that was really well put.   Nov 28 2008, 01:10 PM


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