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> Someone pissed off Jake & Len, replicating LE heads
davep
post Nov 25 2008, 02:07 PM
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a new thread on Air Cooled Technology:

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/show...23001#post23001

it was not a smart move on someones part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
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HAM Inc
post Nov 26 2008, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE
I also enjoy that you've just stated that your current products are not your best work, should we all wait until you release your new killer heads before buying?

Wow! How you drew that conclusion is a bit of a mystery to me, as is the controversy that has erupted over this.
Actually what Jake and I said is that due to constant development, no matter how incremental, our current product represents our state of the art for that moment in time. It in no way infers that our previous work is inferior, much less defective in some way. It only implies that it is not as developed as our present offerings.

When I was told that someone had wished to borrow one of my heads to copy, I was a bit amused. But let me tell you that passed pretty quickly. This isn't a game to me. I have a mortgage, bills, and responsibilities just like everyone else. The only source of income I have to pay those bills is cylinderhead work. I have busted my ass to put myself in a position where I can make a decent living doing something I love. I am nothing but grateful to have Jake on the lookout for me, as I am not the best at that sort of thing. And in the long run everyone whho may one day wish to purchase state of the art cylinderheads should be too. Do you really think that someone who would just copy another guys work is going to be committed to R&D? If the market gets flooded with knock offs I will have no choice but to redirect my focus to another market. Don't want to sound arrogant (I'm actually a pretty humble guy!), but I just don't see anyone else pushing themselves to produce the best heads possible out there.

I had a plan before I started this business. The plan was based on my belief that there was a market for superior value added service in the aircooled cylinderhead business. Ofcourse I knew that plenty of other shops are more than capable of throwing seats and guides at castings and shoving them out the door. To succeed I would have to have a healthy committment to R&D and pour every resource I had (have) back into the business. I have been doing that for over 1o years now, so it is natural that I would be proud of the fact that my head technology has advanced to such a high state. It is also natural that I would want to guard my trade secrets. Jumping down Jakes throat for being aggressive in his defense of these secrets is a bit obnoxious in my opnion. Jake has played a HUGE role in the development of the heads. All of the tricks are mine, but all of the feedback comes from him. For that reason the LE heads are only available through the T4Store. Which means that Jake has a stake in them too.

Yes, it's true that Jake is blunt, frank and sometimes comes off as an asshole. But the fact is he's a nice guy who just doesn't like being crossed. Some folks shrug off being (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif) , even at their own expence. Not Jake, and I respect that.

Without Jake paving the way there would be a huge void in my business and the overall development of T4's that so many board members now take for granted. Make no mistake, the 914 (as is the conversion market, and now the Boxster market ) is much better off for his efforts. Consider this; even our competition knows where to look for the cream of the crop.
Damn! I can't believe I just typed that much!
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Posts in this topic
davep   Someone pissed off Jake & Len   Nov 25 2008, 02:07 PM
ONTHEGRIND   :rolleyes:   Nov 25 2008, 02:13 PM
p914   a new thread on Air Cooled Technology: http://fo...   Nov 25 2008, 02:13 PM
Drums66   :popcorn:   Nov 25 2008, 02:14 PM
ericread   Just for the record; I didn't do it! Eri...   Nov 25 2008, 02:18 PM
DBCooper   Ididn't either, but that won't go anywhere...   Nov 25 2008, 02:36 PM
jimkelly   oh come on - i was whittleing a 2.0 head out of a ...   Nov 25 2008, 02:38 PM
Thomas J Bliznik   I didn't do it!!!! I recently...   Nov 25 2008, 02:57 PM
r_towle   That sucks. Its happened to him before and it just...   Nov 25 2008, 03:01 PM
Todd Enlund   I guess the nice part of the Internet is that wor...   Nov 25 2008, 03:19 PM
brer   Carbon copying Len's ports is not cool, and th...   Nov 25 2008, 03:42 PM
pete-stevers   i dunno.... i think jake makes a great product, no...   Nov 25 2008, 05:08 PM
Rob Ways   Geez. Jake and Len are good guys. They have more i...   Nov 25 2008, 06:07 PM
HAM Inc   In this digital age we live in, that statement c...   Nov 25 2008, 06:12 PM
904svo   In this digital age we live in, that statement ...   Nov 25 2008, 06:21 PM
kwales   Looks like Jake has branded his products. You go ...   Nov 25 2008, 06:52 PM
914Sixer   Damm, nothing is safe any more! But there is ...   Nov 25 2008, 07:06 PM
Joe Owensby   It is not cool copying something that was develope...   Nov 25 2008, 08:40 PM
Chris Hamilton   Well he certainly knows how to talk big... I don...   Nov 25 2008, 08:54 PM
Jake Raby   For the record: I have never banned anyone from my...   Nov 25 2008, 08:56 PM
DBCooper   Now lets address this: Absolutely incorrect. Peo...   Nov 25 2008, 10:18 PM
SirAndy   No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual pro...   Nov 26 2008, 12:10 AM
CliffBraun   No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual pr...   Nov 26 2008, 12:15 AM
SirAndy   which isn't anything close to the issue here ...   Nov 26 2008, 12:25 AM
NineOneFour   [quote name='SirAndy' post='1105625' date='Nov 25...   Nov 26 2008, 12:30 AM
CliffBraun   [quote name='SirAndy' post='1105625' date='Nov 2...   Nov 26 2008, 12:45 AM
biosurfer1   Was he trying to replicate them for his own use or...   Nov 25 2008, 09:05 PM
Chris Hamilton   Was he trying to replicate them for his own use o...   Nov 25 2008, 09:13 PM
CliffBraun   Was he trying to replicate them for his own use ...   Nov 25 2008, 09:29 PM
brer   Was he trying to replicate them for his own use o...   Nov 25 2008, 09:50 PM
flippa   Kick their ass Jake!!!!!! ...   Nov 25 2008, 09:41 PM
championgt1   Kick their ass Jake!!!!!...   Nov 26 2008, 12:12 AM
Jake Raby   Mr. Hamilton, Are you a Lawyer or just a regular s...   Nov 25 2008, 09:52 PM
Chris Hamilton   Mr. Hamilton, Are you a Lawyer or just a regular ...   Nov 26 2008, 12:20 AM
TimT   wait didn't you post that? on your own site...   Nov 25 2008, 09:57 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   <_<   Nov 25 2008, 10:14 PM
biosurfer1   Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to un...   Nov 25 2008, 10:45 PM
CliffBraun   Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to u...   Nov 25 2008, 10:54 PM
Cevan   Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to u...   Nov 26 2008, 07:15 AM
DBCooper   Porsche would have a better claim against Jake tha...   Nov 25 2008, 10:51 PM
LarryR   I was cloned and had my software engineering secre...   Nov 25 2008, 11:32 PM
George H.   registration is down due to spammer attacks   Nov 26 2008, 12:41 AM
Jake Raby   My forums have been closed to new registrations fo...   Nov 26 2008, 04:38 AM
ArtechnikA   FWIW - it's widely believed (a belief CMW cont...   Nov 26 2008, 06:08 AM
DBCooper   Clearly there are forms of automotive industrial ...   Nov 26 2008, 07:20 AM
HAM Inc   Just for the record, our LE-180 design (so named b...   Nov 26 2008, 09:09 AM
Chris Hamilton   Just for the record, our LE-180 design (so named ...   Nov 26 2008, 09:35 AM
Joe Owensby   Just for the record, our LE-180 design (so named...   Nov 26 2008, 10:22 AM
DBCooper   Try the Google patent search, it's really good...   Nov 26 2008, 10:33 AM
Jake Raby   Very correct, unless they are used in complete e...   Nov 26 2008, 10:33 AM
r_towle   Very correct, unless they are used in complete ...   Nov 26 2008, 11:16 AM
Jake Raby   Correct. We find it funny that the same day we f...   Nov 26 2008, 12:05 PM
ONTHEGRIND   You should have never created this thread... If ...   Nov 26 2008, 12:10 PM
LarryR   You should have never created this thread... If...   Nov 26 2008, 12:14 PM
ONTHEGRIND   You should have never created this thread... I...   Nov 26 2008, 12:25 PM
brer   You should have never created this thread... I...   Nov 26 2008, 01:34 PM
HAM Inc   Yep... I just finished my lunch and now I'm ...   Nov 26 2008, 12:19 PM
r_towle   Not to change the subject, but I know both Jake an...   Nov 26 2008, 12:39 PM
ericread   Not to change the subject, but I know both Jake a...   Nov 26 2008, 01:06 PM
Thomas J Bliznik   Hi All, I really enjoy these posts. Very interes...   Nov 26 2008, 12:51 PM
Jake Raby   Hi All, I really enjoy these posts. Very intere...   Nov 26 2008, 01:16 PM
Twise   I would have just beat his ass. Take care Jake...   Nov 26 2008, 01:37 PM
biosurfer1   I would have just beat his ass. Take care Jake.....   Nov 26 2008, 01:55 PM
Jake Raby   I'd think we'd have to release something...   Nov 26 2008, 02:17 PM
brer   I'd think we'd have to release somethin...   Nov 26 2008, 04:22 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   I cannot log on and read Jakes forum since I am no...   Nov 26 2008, 02:24 PM
Jake Raby   So, someone gets poor reviews when they take up ...   Nov 26 2008, 02:34 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   So, someone gets poor reviews when they take up...   Nov 26 2008, 02:40 PM
CliffBraun   So, someone gets poor reviews when they take u...   Nov 26 2008, 03:10 PM
ArtechnikA   I also enjoy that you've just stated that you...   Nov 26 2008, 03:23 PM
SirAndy   I also enjoy that you've just stated that you...   Nov 26 2008, 05:11 PM
davep   And remember: I started a thread on my private fo...   Nov 26 2008, 03:46 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   And remember: I started a thread on my private f...   Nov 26 2008, 03:56 PM
CliffBraun   And remember: I started a thread on my private f...   Nov 26 2008, 03:58 PM
Jake Raby   The problem is simple. Someone has tried to replic...   Nov 26 2008, 03:10 PM
96740   +1 ------------ I tried to register to read for ...   Nov 26 2008, 03:11 PM
Jake Raby   +1 ------------ I tried to register to read for...   Nov 26 2008, 03:23 PM
96740   Understood. I'm on a couple of forums that...   Nov 26 2008, 04:05 PM
Phoenix 914-6GT   Understood. I'm on a couple of forums tha...   Nov 26 2008, 04:09 PM
HAM Inc   Wow! How you drew that conclusion is a bit of...   Nov 26 2008, 04:31 PM
DBCooper   This has been blown WAY out of proportion. From w...   Nov 26 2008, 04:34 PM
davep   From what I read SOMEONE said "Could I buy a...   Nov 26 2008, 06:56 PM
DBCooper   From what I read SOMEONE said "Could I buy ...   Nov 26 2008, 08:08 PM
r_towle   [quote name='davep' post='1105906' date='Nov 26 2...   Nov 26 2008, 08:38 PM
Chris Hamilton   DB... For whatever reason you seem to have a hair...   Nov 26 2008, 08:55 PM
r_towle   DB... For whatever reason you seem to have a hai...   Nov 26 2008, 09:27 PM
SirAndy   For it to be "intellectual property" do...   Nov 26 2008, 11:09 PM
Chris Hamilton   For it to be "intellectual property" d...   Nov 26 2008, 11:16 PM
ArtechnikA   For it to be "intellectual property" d...   Nov 27 2008, 05:14 AM
George H.   DB... For whatever reason you seem to have a hair...   Nov 26 2008, 09:43 PM
DBCooper   It's not possible to go back an re-read the...   Nov 27 2008, 07:53 AM
Jake Raby   My forum is not new, it has over 3,000 members and...   Nov 26 2008, 04:48 PM
tod914   It's great to see people as passionate about t...   Nov 26 2008, 05:47 PM
Rob Ways   In almost every industry, designs get "improv...   Nov 26 2008, 05:47 PM
HAM Inc   DB the info came to me from a credible source. A c...   Nov 27 2008, 10:18 AM
Phoenix 914-6GT   Len, thanks for writing all that. It really helps ...   Nov 27 2008, 12:16 PM
stepuptotheMike   Geez guys. Go eat some turkey and drink some scot...   Nov 27 2008, 01:03 PM
DBCooper   Thanks, Len, excellent and levelheaded explanation...   Nov 28 2008, 07:46 AM
KaptKaos   I still think it strange and incredibly stupid th...   Nov 28 2008, 12:47 PM
RJMII   Len, that was really well put.   Nov 28 2008, 01:10 PM


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