Someone pissed off Jake & Len, replicating LE heads Options

[davep]

a new thread on Air Cooled Technology:

http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/show...23001#post23001

it was not a smart move on someones part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[DBCooper]

This has been blown WAY out of proportion. From what I read SOMEONE said "Could I buy a head so I could copy it? Hardy har har."

That's it, nothing more. Probably just a bad joke, like the ones you restrain yourself from blurting out in airport security. It's the wrong thing to say at the wrong time to the wrong person, so instead of getting a laugh we now have a full season's worth of drama.

[davep]

From what I read SOMEONE said "Could I buy a head so I could copy it? Hardy har har."

Then you had better go back and read from the horse's mouth.
"he asked the caller why he wanted to see one, he replied that he wanted to BORROW one for replication"
That is the lowest level of IP theft!

[DBCooper]

From what I read SOMEONE said "Could I buy a head so I could copy it? Hardy har har."

Then you had better go back and read from the horse's mouth.
"he asked the caller why he wanted to see one, he replied that he wanted to BORROW one for replication"
That is the lowest level of IP theft!

It's not possible to go back an re-read the thread now because the link won't let you into those forums. But this whole story smells funny. So tell me since I can't re-read it, who was the "he" who asked "the caller"? And who was the caller? A competitor? Or was it just some yahoo on the phone making sarcastic joke? Do you know? Does Jake?

If somebody asked me a stupid question like "why do you want to see it?" [when I might want to see it before I bought it just because it costs so much] I might make some stupid sarcastic remark too. So what exactly was the story? Did anything happen at all? Or is all this just pointless drama because someone was trying to make a funny?

[r_towle]

From what I read SOMEONE said "Could I buy a head so I could copy it? Hardy har har."

Then you had better go back and read from the horse's mouth.
"he asked the caller why he wanted to see one, he replied that he wanted to BORROW one for replication"
That is the lowest level of IP theft!

It's not possible to go back an re-read the thread now because the link won't let you into those forums. But this whole story smells funny. So tell me since I can't re-read it, who was the "he" who asked "the caller"? And who was the caller? A competitor? Or was it just some yahoo on the phone making sarcastic joke? Do you know? Does Jake?

If somebody asked me a stupid question like "why do you want to see it?" [when I might want to see it before I bought it just because it costs so much] I might make some stupid sarcastic remark too. So what exactly was the story? Did anything happen at all? Or is all this just pointless drama because someone was trying to make a funny?

DB...
For whatever reason you seem to have a hair accross your ass about this.
For legal reasons, no one should need to know who this person is, or have the ability to slander this person during the investigation and legal proceedings...

DB...legal rules would allow this person to get away with it and accuse Jake/Len of something worse in the process just so YOU get to know who it is.
Dont take that the wrong way, but please think about what you are asking and the consequences to Jake and Len...

This issue is being dealt with by Jake and Len...it was posted here so that if and when you happen to see heads that are copies that may or may not pop up on Ebay some day....you might remember.

It was posted by a client, not by Jake. Both Jake and Len came here to explain and defend their business practices...they did not come here for your approval or judgement on the case.

IP law and the protection of IP, including tradmemarks like VW , Beetle, Porsche has been going on for ages...nothing wrong with a business standing up for its rights.

Rich

[Chris Hamilton]

DB...
For whatever reason you seem to have a hair accross your ass about this.
For legal reasons, no one should need to know who this person is, or have the ability to slander this person during the investigation and legal proceedings...

DB...legal rules would allow this person to get away with it and accuse Jake/Len of something worse in the process just so YOU get to know who it is.
Dont take that the wrong way, but please think about what you are asking and the consequences to Jake and Len...

This issue is being dealt with by Jake and Len...it was posted here so that if and when you happen to see heads that are copies that may or may not pop up on Ebay some day....you might remember.

It was posted by a client, not by Jake. Both Jake and Len came here to explain and defend their business practices...they did not come here for your approval or judgement on the case.

IP law and the protection of IP, including tradmemarks like VW , Beetle, Porsche has been going on for ages...nothing wrong with a business standing up for its rights.

Rich

For it to be "intellectual property" don't you need to prove that it belongs to you and not anyone else? ( i.e. patent it ?)

[SirAndy]

For it to be "intellectual property" don't you need to prove that it belongs to you and not anyone else?

Sure, but neither Len nor Jake need to prove anything to *YOU* ...

So, legally, it's perfectly fine that they refrain from giving any information on the subject in a public forum.

I know your beef with Jake, so i know where you're coming from ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[Chris Hamilton]

For it to be "intellectual property" don't you need to prove that it belongs to you and not anyone else?

Sure, but neither Len nor Jake need to prove anything to *YOU* ...

So, legally, it's perfectly fine that they refrain from giving any information on the subject in a public forum.

I know your beef with Jake, so i know where you're coming from ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

I was asking in a purely hypothetical sense, but hey it's your forum if you don't want me asking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

For it to be "intellectual property" don't you need to prove that it belongs to you and not anyone else?

I was asking in a purely hypothetical sense, but hey it's your forum if you don't want me asking.

OK - as long as we're talking generalities, the short answer is no.

For it to be -your- intellectual property, you will need to prove it belongs to you in order to prevail in legal action.

It's always IP, so it's not a matter of when does it become such - it becomes such at the moment of conception. It's a matter of ownership, and that's quite a different matter, especially as there are different forms of protection available depending on the form of the IP.

*generally* - you can patent a 'thing' which (as originally conceived) means you can charge others a fee (the royalty) for the reproduction of the thing. (It was not intended as a means of granting you the exclusive right to manufacture, but that is its current effect.) And patent history is rife with people who were able to patent someone else's idea first, thereby gaining legal ownership of the rights. And there are even lots of cases where multiple people, working completely independently, came up with the same ideas at essentially the same time. (These are almost exclusively from the pre-Internet-universally connected days. I don't think there are many patents filed these days by people working completely independently...)

In today's world, tho, the patent process exposes many details to the public, and producing an actual product does the same. What if your factory has a special widget-making machine that uses some unique process by which it's possible for you to make widgets cheaper, faster, and better than any one else? Is there protection for that? Sure - it's called 'trade secret' and the thing is - you must treat it as secret. Label the files - put measure in place to make sure they do not escape - make everyone who sees the material sign nondisclosure statements...

(As long as we're talking hypothetical generalities, here's a HYPOTHETICAL drawn from the material in this thread. Suppose you have a cylinder head that's just a normal production-car cylinder head. But you have a machining process using post-industrial dilithium crystals and a coolant bath of hummingbird spit that lets you cut valve seats in one second. You don't patent that process because you never plan to mass-product the machine, and if the secret were out, every one would do it. Treat it like a secret, and if some one steals the idea, you have a cause of action.) I gather that there is an element of this in play here.

Copyright protects 'an expression.' A picture - a painting - a story. It's the property of the maker the moment it's made. Currently I believe the duration of a copyright is life of the maker plus 75 years, but it's changed several times through the years. But it is the expression that is protected - not the idea. You may feel "Romeo and Juliet" was a shameless ripoff of "West Side Story" but most would agree the difference is in the telling...

Copyrights are fairly easy to give away, unfortunately, especially in these Internet days, and I am not qualified to post specifics. Suffice to say that it's probably best to display the copyright you claim along with the material you want protected. There are levels of copyright protection that involve government registration of interest of serious, professional generators of protectable content - photographers, writers, musicians - like that. Way beyond the scope of this thread...

Trademark and servicemark exist to give you the (more or less) exclusive right to a word or phrase to identify your product. e.g. - Porsche claims 'visual trademark' on the unique shapes of (most of) their cars, including 911 and 928 (but not 914...). Some things (like numbers...) can't be trademarked, which is why the "next generation" of Intel computer processor, following the 8086. 80186, 80286, 80386, and 80486 was - ta da - 'Pentium.' (AMD was starting to use "x86" numbering...) And yes, we all know the '911' isn't a '901' because Peugeot complained about the "middle zero." French laws are different...

And you can't get a registered trademark on everyday words with common meanings. Like "Windows." (OK, bad example...)

Lots of technical products have *multiple layers* of protectable IP. A computer chip may have a patentable circuit implemented with a patented ion deposition process using a patented combination of rare gasses making a computer with copyrighted fabrication layout graphics and schematics and principals of operation, with a trade-secret fabrication foundry machine resulting in a part with a trademarked name.

Of course, this is all an existential and legal issue.

Something _is_ intellectual property as soon as it's created.
It _might be_ yours legally, unless someone else files to protect it first (and they had a right to do so, meaning they came by the material legitimately). It doesn't have to be yours for you to claim it's yours, which is when the lawyers get involved...

You don't have to file for any kind of government protection for IP to *be* yours, but in many cases it strengthens your position (a lot). Like many rights, they can be lost or given away. If you don't act like you want something protected, generally, your protections will be lost. (This thread is about Jake and Len acting like they want their stuff protected.)