New 914 owner! Already dreaming of engine swaps..., What would you guys think about a 4A-GE blacktop in a 914? Options

[betz]

A little background: I have 3 cars besides the 914: A stock '00 Boxster, a restored '86 E30 BMW with a 2.8L stroker M20, and a '06 Outback XT. All manual trans.

I found this 1972 914 1.7 on craigslist for $1600 and the main selling point to me was that most of the parts were there, it just seemed to need some basic TLC to get it running. Also, its a California car and not a total rust bucket. Also hasn't appeared to be in any major accidents. After pretty much finishing my E30 I've been itching for a new project... Ideally smog exempt.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-22593-1541542078.1.jpg)

The plan for the car is to get it running with the original type 4. The PO, who only had it for a few months, said he thinks it needs a fuel pump... turns out, the fuel pump wasn't even plugged in. So OF COURSE it's not running. He got it to start briefly with just starter fluid, so I'm thinking that's pretty much it. I'm going to bring it back to stock configuration on the D-jet, change out the oil and fuel, plug in the dang fuel pump in and I pretty much expect it to start up no problem.

From there, I will get into the restoration phase. Take it down to bare metal (I believe the car was originally black, and has total crap paint job) tackle any rust, then repaint. Then get the interior/ exterior trim all sorted.

And, if I get through alll that... I will probably want to undertake a motor swap, unless I'm just in love with the type 4. I tossed a few ideas out there, but my ideal motor would be a light, high revving motor with ITB's. Since S14's are not exactly obtainable, the 20V 4A-GE blacktop is my best idea so far. KEP makes an adapter for it, plus, it doesn't make enough power to break the stock 901 trans. I am a mechanical engineer with access to a machine shop, so fabbing some engine mounts, routing cooling system etc will most likely be pretty doable.

What do you guys think? Am I in over my head?

[Chi-town]

Not really hurting it too much, seeing as multiple shops make kits to relocate the water lines.. Some I see are as low as $200.
Unfortunately the ITBs for a K20 cost more than an entire 4AGE engine. Some of the Honda ITB kits actually use blacktop throttles with an adapter, lol. And good sound is not guaranteed... it's likely that the blacktop partially gets it's unique sound from having 5V per cylinder. I kinda want a drop in solution where the most engine modifications I'm going to do is cams and a valve job. Sure I can get the K motor up to 300 hp at the wheels, all motor. But at that point, I'm breaking my transmission if I use first gear. And in it a lot more $$.

Another thing, is that the toughest part of my E30 build was not swapping the motor, but getting the thing tuned right. I went through 3 sets of injectors, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, wideband O2 sensor, a bunch of crappy AFMs and 3 different tunes. It's still not 100% perfect, idle is a little wonky sometimes (probably because of the cam) and sometimes at WOT it will hesitate. I'll probably do a megasquirt with it eventually, but that's $$ plus dyno time which means more $$$. I imagine I'll have my hands full with just the swap for my 914- I'd like modifications to the motor to be another project.. but in the distant future.

It sounds like you're pretty set on a BT 20 so I'll leave you with this:

A 16v 4AGE with ITB's sounds exactly the same as a BT 20v with ITB's, I've built both. The 5 valve per cylinder sounds cool until you realize almost all of them need valve guides and sometimes valves (very common issue). If I knew how much of a pain the BT swap was I would have built another 16v and saved myself some cash and made more power.

Those $200 water line kits are a joke, most of them run a steel pipe right over the top of the exhaust header and right under the ITBs or worse have you grind out part of the casting in the head which creates it's own separate issues.

The blacktop is not without it's own tuning issues. They have a capacitor issue in the ECUs which is becoming more common as even the newest blacktop is already 18 years old and most of them are crazy high mileage (DON'T believe any JDM importer that says 30-60k miles!!). Oh and don't forget the wiring issues (stay away from Tweak'd, his $480 harness was junk)

You can buy a K20 for about the same amount as a BT 20v and have motor that will run like a swiss clock right off the crate and make more HP stock (and WAY more torque!) than a BT 20v does heavily modded.

You also have a huge community to look to to get good prices on used parts (like ITBs) and technical support. You also can get service parts at any parts store in the US. You won't be stuck dealing with the price gouging and vultures over on Club4ag.

For inspiration..

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=97897

As I've learned over so many years in the aftermarket, everyone wants something different so you do you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[betz]

A 16v 4AGE with ITB's sounds exactly the same as a BT 20v with ITB's, I've built both. The 5 valve per cylinder sounds cool until you realize almost all of them need valve guides and sometimes valves (very common issue). If I knew how much of a pain the BT swap was I would have built another 16v and saved myself some cash and made more power.

The blacktop is not without it's own tuning issues. They have a capacitor issue in the ECUs which is becoming more common as even the newest blacktop is already 18 years old and most of them are crazy high mileage (DON'T believe any JDM importer that says 30-60k miles!!). Oh and don't forget the wiring issues (stay away from Tweak'd, his $480 harness was junk)

You can buy a K20 for about the same amount as a BT 20v and have motor that will run like a swiss clock right off the crate and make more HP stock (and WAY more torque!) than a BT 20v does heavily modded.

You also have a huge community to look to to get good prices on used parts (like ITBs) and technical support. You also can get service parts at any parts store in the US. You won't be stuck dealing with the price gouging and vultures over on Club4ag.


As I've learned over so many years in the aftermarket, everyone wants something different so you do you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

You know.. I think you're right. You clearly have more experience with these motors than I do, and I definitely value the ability to get parts quickly and affordably. And I mean.. it's not like a K motor in a 914 isn't unique enough. And there's no way I couldn't make that thing a screamer!

If I'm honest I was never thrilled with all that work for 160hp and the K20 still doesnt make enough torque stock to break the transmission. It really does have a lot going for it.

I also like that idea of a 5 cylinder with a Boxster trans. No adapter plate- just swapping flanges? I might look into that.
At this rate I'll be buying more Boxster parts for the 914 than for the Boxster lol. Let's see.. shift cables, radiators, transmission..

[Andyrew]

A 16v 4AGE with ITB's sounds exactly the same as a BT 20v with ITB's, I've built both. The 5 valve per cylinder sounds cool until you realize almost all of them need valve guides and sometimes valves (very common issue). If I knew how much of a pain the BT swap was I would have built another 16v and saved myself some cash and made more power.

The blacktop is not without it's own tuning issues. They have a capacitor issue in the ECUs which is becoming more common as even the newest blacktop is already 18 years old and most of them are crazy high mileage (DON'T believe any JDM importer that says 30-60k miles!!). Oh and don't forget the wiring issues (stay away from Tweak'd, his $480 harness was junk)

You can buy a K20 for about the same amount as a BT 20v and have motor that will run like a swiss clock right off the crate and make more HP stock (and WAY more torque!) than a BT 20v does heavily modded.

You also have a huge community to look to to get good prices on used parts (like ITBs) and technical support. You also can get service parts at any parts store in the US. You won't be stuck dealing with the price gouging and vultures over on Club4ag.


As I've learned over so many years in the aftermarket, everyone wants something different so you do you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

You know.. I think you're right. You clearly have more experience with these motors than I do, and I definitely value the ability to get parts quickly and affordably. And I mean.. it's not like a K motor in a 914 isn't unique enough. And there's no way I couldn't make that thing a screamer!

If I'm honest I was never thrilled with all that work for 160hp and the K20 still doesnt make enough torque stock to break the transmission. It really does have a lot going for it.

I also like that idea of a 5 cylinder with a Boxster trans. No adapter plate- just swapping flanges? I might look into that.
At this rate I'll be buying more Boxster parts for the 914 than for the Boxster lol. Let's see.. shift cables, radiators, transmission..

No boxster radiators.. they won't fit well. Toyota Celica is the one you want. The aluminum rad on eBay is good for up to a big v6. Possibly enough for a small V8. (Sub 5L)