New car vs. Restored classic?, What are the possibilities? Options

[JeffBowlsby]

In another post it was said. ‘Wife bought a new Bronco in 2022. We sold it a few months ago and bought a 1972 Bronco to replace it.’

Been pondering the same dilemma. Not talking about sports cars in this thread.

New cars are expensive to buy, maintain, repair and insure. Loaded with tech, and numerous features they can be very complicated. Even lower cost new cars can fit this description. A recent article says new cars average $50K now, even an F150 pickup is reportedly $65K. The new cars we really want can be over six figures. New cars depreciate like rocks whereas vintage car values are much more stable. I’m thinking fully restored cars that would pass a thorough PPI. No project cars. No complicated cars. No “they only made X of these” with an inflated cost. No 40 Ford restorods or Model As. Nothing particularly ostentatious.

I think the possibilities, risks, rewards of a good quality vintage car instead of new could be advantageous. We need to consider at least reliability, availability of shops that can provide service, parts availability. Certainly reasonable safety is important which most older cars are not well equipped. Collector insurance may help reduce costs if that fits the situation.

Which specific vehicles would you consider as good candidates for a family car be it a sedan, SUV or minivan? Both domestic and imports, low mileage, well cared for. Condition is more important than collectibility. Probably A/C is a must but could be retrofitted. Want to focus on vehicles that would be reliable as daily drivers.

I am thinking of 60s-70s Chevys, Fords, 2000s Hondas and Toyotas. 1975 and earlier would be beneficial to those of us in CA. Valued at something less than $50K. What are your ideas?

[DennisV]

In another post it was said. ‘Wife bought a new Bronco in 2022. We sold it a few months ago and bought a 1972 Bronco to replace it.’

Been pondering the same dilemma. Not talking about sports cars in this thread.

Which specific vehicles would you consider as good candidates for a family car be it a sedan, SUV or minivan? Both domestic and imports, low mileage, well cared for. Condition is more important than collectibility. Probably A/C is a must but could be retrofitted. Want to focus on vehicles that would be reliable as daily drivers.

I am thinking of 60s-70s Chevys, Fords, 2000s Hondas and Toyotas. 1975 and earlier would be beneficial to those of us in CA. Valued at something less than $50K. What are your ideas?

This is a super interesting thread.

Like @Jack_Standz we have owned a Cayenne (2014) for several years. It is a very versatile, comfortable, and enjoyable to drive. It continues to be reliable enough for every day and on long trips without worry.

Part of the analysis needs to be how much you're willing to spend on maintenance and / or are you expecting to be able to do maintenance yourself.

In Northern California at an independent repair shop the intermediate maintenance on my 2014 911 runs about $650. No repairs needed.

I enjoy wrenching, but am very reluctant to work on late 90s and new cars. Once computer-dependent diagnostics came onto the scene with ODB-II and CAN bus I gave up doing much. Though I did do a factory trailer hitch install on our Cayenne. I saw too many times on my 1997 Boxster where a competent independent shop with a Porsche diagnostic scanner still had to rely on their dealer contacts to help decipher codes and get to root cause on issues.

[Superhawk996]

I enjoy wrenching, but am very reluctant to work on late 90s and new cars. Once computer-dependent diagnostics came onto the scene with ODB-II and CAN bus I gave up doing much.

Why? OBDII makes things easier. In the majority of cases the codes point you to what the problem is. Swap a sensor, and you’re back in business.

Sure there are weird situations that require a brain to get to root cause but those are usually the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately this has lead to many “technicians” becoming nothing more than glorified parts swappers.

Having a good scan tool that is compatible with the OEM specific codes is key. For example on the BMW X5 my generic scan tool can’t reset or give much insight on some of BMWs specific / unique codes.

For example: had a fault for transfer case oil abrasion (i.e. oil worn out). My generic scan tool can’t reset it. Once I got an appropriate version of BMWs ISTA diagnostics working (a whole fiasco unto itself!!) - I was able to change the oil, reset the adaptions, and clear the code - problem solved.

[DennisV]

Why? OBDII makes things easier. In the majority of cases the codes point you to what the problem is. Swap a sensor, and you’re back in business.

Having a good scan tool that is compatible with the OEM specific codes is key. For example on the BMW X5 my generic scan tool can’t reset or give much insight on some of BMWs specific / unique codes.

I used to take my '97 Boxster to a competent independent repair shop that only worked on Porsche. They had a genuine Porsche diagnostic tool. On more than one occasion, they couldn't get enough info from the tool to get to root cause. Luckily they had contacts at the dealer who sometimes had to escalate to the factory to come up with a fix.

I was also under the impression that OEM scanners were thousands of dollars and required software subscriptions.

Maybe things have changed and the scanners are better and cheaper now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[Superhawk996]

I used to take my '97 Boxster to a competent independent repair shop that only worked on Porsche. They had a genuine Porsche diagnostic tool. On more than one occasion, they couldn't get enough info from the tool to get to root cause. Luckily they had contacts at the dealer who sometimes had to escalate to the factory to come up with a fix.

I was also under the impression that OEM scanners were thousands of dollars and required software subscriptions.

Maybe things have changed and the scanners are better and cheaper now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Not sure what’s going on at your Indy. Are we taking about engine emissions codes or other stuff like body controls (windows, locks, control of the convertible top, instruments, etc?)

Keep in mind that OBDII came into effect in 1996. In a lot of ways it was still immature in 97’ and OEMs were still trying to figure it out themselves. As a counter point, I’ve never had any OBDII issues with my 98’ Camry.

Here’s the reality, OBD originated as engine / emissions control. Engine OBDII is standardized by regulation and most of the engine codes and failure modes are dictated by regulation and well mapped between this failure = this root cause.

When you get to OEM codes for all other systems (body, chassis, electrical) it’s up to the OEM to define codes and what sets them. In my example - a BMW transfer case oil abrasion code isn’t dictated by regulation and BMW defines the code, what sets it, and what it takes to repair and clear the code.

With respect to scan tools, this is a topic worthy of its own thread but few here would care because it’s OT to 914’s.

I didn’t mean to imply the scan tool has to be OEM. Yes, many of those can be expensive and do require OEM subscriptions. However some OEMs allow short term subscription (by day, week, or month) but are still somewhat pricy. BMW for example is $32/day, $270 /month and $2500 /year as I recall.

What was referring to is there are two basic classes of aftermarket scan tools:

1) Cheap (ie less than $100 ish) that read only the standardized, regulated OBDII engine codes. These tools do a poor job of being able to read or properly identify the OEM enhanced codes. These tools are usually incapable of being able to read out live data from the vehicle or to do bidirectional communication with the vehicle to activate systems or test sensors. Example Innova’s low end tools. These aren’t bad tools - just limited in what they can do.


2) Scan tools that are still generic and can read many OEMs but capable of bi-directional communication. They can read live data. They can control actuators. They can perform OEM specific service resets. These have a huge price range between a couple hundred dollars and thousands. Some brands of scan tools handle certain OEMs better than others. Examples: Foxwell, Autel, Thinktool, etc.

But the bottom line is OBD isn’t something to be afraid of. If you can tune a carb, you can figure out how to use OBDII scan tools (even a cheap one) to your advantage.