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> OE Exhaust Valves, Sodium
914werke
post Apr 1 2006, 10:04 PM
Post #61


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I know Jake suggests tossing these, but unfortunantly Im rebuilding a set of heads. Id like to keep them stock, but Im more concerned about longevity.
Is there anything that can be done to improve thier function?

Cryo? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)
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jsteele22
post Apr 2 2006, 05:13 PM
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Interesting thread, had no idea it was gonna be so contentious. I've got no opinion one way or the other, but I thought I'd add a few things to the mix.

The issue with exhaust valves is not getting them too hot. Filling them w/ sodium, as was mentioned well down in this thread, is to make the valve a good conductor of heat. You want the heat to flow from the head of the valve where temperatures are highest down the stem to where it can be conducted out of the valve. Not only is sodium a good conductor, but (as mentioned) it melts at really low temperatures, so there is also some convection going on.

Stainless steel, by comparison, is a fairly crappy conductor of heat. I'm guessing that what has changed over lo these many decades is that good SS valves strike a happy balance between having slightly better thermal conductivity and also being able to survive higher temps.

So what's the big deal with sodium exploding ? Simply put, it combines with water (H2O) and grabs the OH, releasing the H (hydrogen) in the form of a gas. This process is exothermic, meaning it also releases a fair amount of heat. So if you combine sodium, water and air, you might get an explosion. If you want an explosion, use lots of sodium in a small amount of water. Actually, the reaction is so fast, that a smallish chunk of sodium will skitter around on the surface of a pond due to all the hydrogen gas streaming out. Kind of like a mosquito having a fart attack. If you don't want an explosion keep the sodium away from water or air or both. If you read in the manuals of cars that have sodium filled valves, you might be suprised to find the recommended means of disposing of them : grind through the valve until you hit the sodium, then drop it into a bucket of water ! Is this crazy ? Not really. The amount of sodium is small and the valves are heavy. They sink to the bottom, the water reacts with the sodium until its all gone, and the hydrogen bubbles out to the top of the water, cooling off very rapidly. Unless you intentionally try to ignite it, it will just diffuse out into the air.

Carry on.
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Posts in this topic
rdauenhauer   OE Exhaust Valves   Apr 1 2006, 10:04 PM
r_towle   Im gonna ask a rhetorical question... Did the ori...   Apr 1 2006, 10:10 PM
rdauenhauer   Actually yes! and that IS the hope. <...   Apr 1 2006, 11:56 PM
Brando   <...   Apr 2 2006, 12:16 AM
messix   the valve stems are filled with sodium to isolate ...   Apr 2 2006, 12:20 AM
DNHunt     Apr 2 2006, 06:49 AM
davep   <...   Apr 2 2006, 06:59 AM
Bleyseng   I don't use 30yr old valves in my cars....if y...   Apr 2 2006, 08:29 AM
J P Stein     Apr 2 2006, 08:48 AM
r_towle   Here is my logic. The car/engine was designed for...   Apr 2 2006, 09:10 AM
Rotten Robby   ...and for a fun experiment you can do at home...   Apr 2 2006, 10:54 AM
r_towle   what happens when you pour it down the sink?? smok...   Apr 2 2006, 10:57 AM
bd1308     Apr 2 2006, 11:10 AM
J P Stein     Apr 2 2006, 11:10 AM
Rotten Robby     Apr 2 2006, 11:13 AM
Jake Raby   I can't stand not posting on this topic. If ...   Apr 2 2006, 11:59 AM
Aaron Cox   http://www.914world.com/bbs2/h...   Apr 2 2006, 12:05 PM
r_towle   ...   Apr 2 2006, 01:27 PM
Bleyseng   http://www.914world.com/bbs2/h...   Apr 2 2006, 04:17 PM
bd1308   sounds like sodium could be used to make hydrogen ...   Apr 2 2006, 05:20 PM
alpha434   I'm not sure if you could cryo sodium filled v...   Apr 2 2006, 06:00 PM
davep   ...   Apr 2 2006, 06:01 PM
Al Meredith   Sodium is used in LOW PRESSURE SODIUM LIGHT BULBS....   Apr 2 2006, 06:57 PM
alpha434     Apr 3 2006, 08:58 AM
DNHunt  
  Apr 3 2006, 09:11 AM
Bleyseng   My rebuilt rebuilt motor with the new cam is runni...   Apr 3 2006, 10:19 AM
Demick   Just a few observations: 1. I have noticed that J...   Apr 3 2006, 10:30 AM
DNHunt   I agree that the longer duration probably acounts ...   Apr 3 2006, 10:52 AM
Demick   Dave Very generally, steel has 2-3 times the ther...   Apr 3 2006, 11:07 AM
Bleyseng     Apr 3 2006, 11:10 AM
J P Stein   The sodium transfers heat from the head to the ste...   Apr 3 2006, 12:43 PM
Bleyseng   and if the valve guide is worn the valve does not ...   Apr 3 2006, 12:57 PM
alpha434   <...   Apr 3 2006, 01:39 PM
SLITS   <...   Apr 3 2006, 02:01 PM
davep   <...   Apr 3 2006, 02:06 PM
Matt Meyer  
  Apr 3 2006, 02:22 PM
Bleyseng   Good food for thought on how fixing one problem le...   Apr 3 2006, 02:46 PM
Twystd1   Somebody explain to me how an Airplane piston engi...   Apr 3 2006, 02:58 PM
arc914  
  Apr 3 2006, 04:06 PM
Bleyseng   I am not sure that type 4 engines need a spray bar...   Apr 3 2006, 05:29 PM
Twystd1   Many spec racing (NASCAR and others) V8 engines us...   Apr 3 2006, 06:03 PM
J P Stein   Golly.........what Porsche engine has had 2 cam to...   Apr 3 2006, 07:33 PM
Bleyseng   Aren't 911 engines dry sumped? <...   Apr 3 2006, 08:07 PM
TimT  
  Apr 3 2006, 08:22 PM
DNHunt   Damn that was good http://w...   Apr 3 2006, 08:34 PM
J P Stein   30's technology? I'm 40's technology.....   Apr 3 2006, 09:38 PM
sixnotfour   935 oil cooled/lubed guide exhaust,oil cooled/lube...   Apr 3 2006, 11:03 PM
sixnotfour   sideshot   Apr 3 2006, 11:07 PM
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