Spanked by a Civic?, Do you think a brand new 197 HP Civic Si can beat a Options

[angerosa]

Do you think a brand new 197 HP Civic Si can beat a 914 with 3.0 6 conversion? My buddy who doesn't have a preference either way says that the civic will win hands down (he has a VW symbol tattooed on his calf too). Even if the 914-6 has 260 - 280 HP. What do you guys think? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[Brett W]

Yeah and I watched a DSP Neon beat all but two full out open wheel race cars at an autocross this weekend. You can't compare modified cars to stock cars.

On paper the Civic beats the stock 914 and 914-6 in every objective category. It has AC, CD, Navigation, etc. Beats it in emissions, reliability, drivability, power, and handling. It won't over heat the heads because it was lugged around town, it doesn't leak all over the garage floor, or leak water in through the weatherstripping. It has airbags and modern safety ratings. The gearbox is not as vague as a spoon in a bowl of mashed potatoes, the engine doesn't sound like a diesel, and it doesn't float the valves at 5700rpm. It still makes more torque than either a stock 914-6 or a 914-4. Lets not even discuss HP.

The power to weight ratio of each car is:
73 914-4 2.0 22.1lbs/hp
70 914-6 2.0 18.9lbs/hp
2007 Civic Si 2.0 14.6lbs/hp

Civic wins. In 30years the Civic will not be a rust pile of junk that needs to have floorpans, trunk floors, hell holes, etc repaired or replaced. The interior will will probably have fallen apart, but that is the nature of modern plastics. The transmission won't fail at twice the listed HP, the engine is bolt ons away from well over 260hp and capable of 300+ in NA form. Lets not even talk turbos.

Now the 914 has a character that probably won't ever be matched by the Civic. Soul is getting hard to come by on the new car lots these days. But it is still a 30+ year old car and you have to deal with those issues and advantages. A 914 is a light weight car that is what really makes the roadster experience "all that". It has a visceral feel to it that is hard to come by these days. Nothing like the sound of an aircooled six right behind your head.

Both cars have their advantages and disadvantages. It is all personal preference. If you want to see which car is better, bring them to an autocross, road course, drag race and daily driving test. Then decide which one is better.

[grantsfo]

The power to weight ratio of each car is:
73 914-4 2.0 22.1lbs/hp
70 914-6 2.0 18.9lbs/hp
2007 Civic Si 2.0 14.6lbs/hp

I find that comparing peak HP to weight to be misleading sometimes. While its a fairly good indicator of how a car will do it misses many factors.

Overall power band with both torque and HP are important. Where does that Honda make peak torque and HP? Where does 914 make its peak? Bet that 914 has more or similar peak torque than the Honda in lower RPM's which actually makes the 914 easier to drive in daily traffic. Honda has always irritated me with their low displacement street cars not making enogh low end torque. I actually passed up a S2000 with a high strung 2.4 liter in favor of the new Mazda MX5 because the MX5 had much better low end response for daiy driving with its smaller 2.0 motor.

The new Civic SI would be a real pain in the AS$ for me to drive regardless of its modern . I went with a Mazda sedan that makes 280 ft lbs of torque at at 2800 RPM. Wonder where that honda makes its mighty 139 ft lbs?

When you start factoring in extra weight in a car from 4 passengers the new SI is really struggling. Nothing like whipping a motor to death when you have friends and family in your car just to accelerate onto the feerway etc.

[cobra94563]

The new Civic SI would be a real pain in the AS$ for me to drive regardless of its modern . I went with a Mazda sedan that makes 280 ft lbs of torque at at 2800 RPM. Wonder where that honda makes its mighty 139 ft lbs?

I respectfully disagree. My daughter's Integra GSR was a kick to drive. 1.8 ltr 170hp and 128 tq, 8k redline. The VTEC kicks in at 6k. I always felt that engine was/is way better than my '90 C2 3.6 in terms of hp/liter & feel. (just needs to be bigger. doesn't leak either (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

Don't know how the civic feels but sounds like a significant upgrade.

[dlo914]

The new Civic SI would be a real pain in the AS$ for me to drive regardless of its modern . I went with a Mazda sedan that makes 280 ft lbs of torque at at 2800 RPM. Wonder where that honda makes its mighty 139 ft lbs?

I respectfully disagree. My daughter's Integra GSR was a kick to drive. 1.8 ltr 170hp and 128 tq, 8k redline. The VTEC kicks in at 6k. I always felt that engine was/is way better than my '90 C2 3.6 in terms of hp/liter & feel. (just needs to be bigger. doesn't leak either (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

Don't know how the civic feels but sounds like a significant upgrade.

Since on the debate about weight to power rate issues w/ the new civic, a buddy of mine had a 93' Honda Civic Si Hatchback that had a GSR B18c installed. Now we're talking 2200 lb civic w/ the 170hp and 128tq, and 8k redline. Man that thing flew and hauled ass even w/ a car full of people. Being that it was an Si it had the creature comforts of Cruise Control, Moonroof, A/C, Powersteering, all the modern day accessories back in 93'. And to top it off it was BAR certified so even if he got pulled over randomly and the cop had him pop his hood he'd be safe from any tickets. Too bad he sold it just recently and went w/ a 97' Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-Turbo w/ the Lancer Evo 4G63. Now he's addicted to boost.

After all this blabbering i'd still get a 914 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/whack_3.gif) it's just something about the character, simplicity, and handling of a 914, but for power train i'd have to go w/ something from Fuji Heavy Industries LTD (Subaru). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)