75 LJet will not fire, PHASE 2: still not starting...Phase 3: not idling, PHASE 4: fine tune! Options

[stugray]

I just went through this entire process.

Can you turn the dizzy at least 90 degrees (back & forth total rotation)?
If so, then you should not need to pull it.

You can position the #1 wire at any one of the four rotor cap positions.
So you should be able to get it to adjust wherever the drive gear is positioned.

First you must find TDC - Beyond the shadow of a doubt.
Here is my procedure I posted on another timing thread:


Pull off the 1/2 side valve cover.
Rotate the engine while watching the #1 valves.
As soon as the #1 intake valve closes, watch through the triangular hole between the engine & tranny.
As TDC comes around you will see a white mark on the flywheel.
When that mark is lined up with the case split line and both #1 valves are slack, that is TDC #1.
At that point you might find a mark on the fan through the timing hole (maybe not)
You will probably need to rotate the engine through a few full rotations to "get" the valves on #1 so use the starter at first.

Once the engine is guaranteed to be at TDC #1, then:

Rotate the dist. back and forth through the full rotation and then put it back near half of that travel.
Put the rotor cap on and plug the #1 wire into the cap closest to the rotor position.
Then follow the procedure for setting the static timing using a DMM.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9.../914_timing.htm

Search that link for "Now, we need to check the wire orientation in the cap. " and follow the instructions for setting static timing from there.

Stu

[malcolm2]

I'll be honest, every time I split the case, I make sure everything is aligned before bolting back together. I have never attempted to pull the drive gear with the engine all together. Maybe others will give advise to what to do.

I guess I am going to need some input. I have #1 on TDC. I removed the nut on the hold down clamp and even loosened the adjustment bolt on the hold down clamp, but the dizzy will not come out. It rotates, but something is holding it in the engine.

Anyone have any ideas?

[timothy_nd28]

You may need to pry the hold down bracket while pulling on the dizzy.

[stugray]

Read my post above first, and the link then IF that fails (it should not), then.......

Search under the dizzy. There is a nut holding down the adjustment bracket.
You have to remove that nut before you can pull the dizzy.

If you go and pull the dist drive gear and the "special washer" is not on the end, then what are you going to do?

If you do not know what the "special washer" is, then you need to do a little more research.
Some have pulled and replaced the drive gear for years with no problems.
Others have either lost the washer in the case, or there wasnt one there to start with and then ????

Stu

[malcolm2]

Read my post above first, and the link then IF that fails (it should not), then.......

Search under the dizzy. There is a nut holding down the adjustment bracket.
You have to remove that nut before you can pull the dizzy.

If you go and pull the dist drive gear and the "special washer" is not on the end, then what are you going to do?

If you do not know what the "special washer" is, then you need to do a little more research.
Some have pulled and replaced the drive gear for years with no problems.
Others have either lost the washer in the case, or there wasnt one there to start with and then ????

Stu

I have heard the stories, and did not really want to pull the dizzy because of the possible problems.

We went thru just about all your suggestions above. The last and probably most important did not get done, static timing.

Since I could not get the dizzy out easily, I will go back and verify all the other steps and follow the pelican instructions on that. I have read thru them.

1 issue I did notice from your steps, I do not see the white mark on the fly wheel. I will also get me a helper and see if I can't watch for the mark as he turns the engine manually.

I get the intake closing and some lash on both rockers, I get my homemade marks on the fan close to the right place and the rotor is pointing toward the passenger side. All that is left is the flywheel mark and the Pelican check. Sound correct?

That is a job for this (Thursday) evening. Thanks for all your help

[TheCabinetmaker]

There is no white mark unless someone else made one there. If you are truly at tdc # 1, The factory notch will be visible in the hole at the top of the trans where it mounts to the case. You will have to pull the rear tin back to see it. You can also feel it with your finger if you reach up from the bottom of the trans. Yes, your arm and hand will fit up there.

On another note, You installed chromolly pushrods, but did not cut them? That tells me you did not do the geometry. You may have more problems than you realize.

BTW, chromolly rods run 0 lash.

[timothy_nd28]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[TheCabinetmaker]

Purchased awhile back from the type 4 store and cut to fit. I will have to double check, but I am thinking chrome moly.....

Yes chmly w/tips uncut

Ok, First sentence says 'cut to fit". Second sentence says "uncut". So which is it?

[malcolm2]

There is no white mark unless someone else made one there. If you are truly at tdc # 1, The factory notch will be visible in the hole at the top of the trans where it mounts to the case. You will have to pull the rear tin back to see it. You can also feel it with your finger if you reach up from the bottom of the trans. Yes, your arm and hand will fit up there.

On another note, You installed chromolly pushrods, but did not cut them? That tells me you did not do the geometry. You may have more problems than you realize.

BTW, chromolly rods run 0 lash.

So what is it that tells you I did not do the geometry? I have an adjustable pushrod and spent alot of time on the geometry. Even at that, IIRC, I was not 100% confident in my results.

I did cut the push rods. I went thru the proceedure provided. Measured several, several times and cut once. I am 99% sure I did that as prescribed. I will have to look in my notes, but the NEW pushrods did not end up being that much different in length than the ones I took out, which I still have.


Clark

[malcolm2]

Purchased awhile back from the type 4 store and cut to fit. I will have to double check, but I am thinking chrome moly.....

Yes chmly w/tips uncut

Ok, First sentence says 'cut to fit". Second sentence says "uncut". So which is it?

I was meaning that I did the cut-to-fit. Jake's invoice said "uncut". So once I got the invoice out I knew what I had and I edited my post.

You probably know but, but they come alittle longer with one tip installed and the other end is to be cut to fit and the tip installed.

[TheCabinetmaker]

Ok, I understand. you will be ok. just remember the 0 lash. I was kinda intimidated too on my first one. I breathed much easier when it started for the first time and made no weird noises.

[stugray]

There is no white mark unless someone else made one there. If you are truly at tdc # 1, The factory notch will be visible in the hole at the top of the trans where it mounts to the case.

Ok, so there might not be white paint on the mark, but it is a notch that is cut (machined) into the flywheel.

And at TDC, the notch is visible in the BOTTOM of the tranny, not the top.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i1364.photobucket.com-15709-1369273570.1.jpg)

The timing mark is not visible in this pic, but it is there.

Stu

[stugray]

I just did a search and found some say that the mark will be at the top of the trans at #1 TDC.

So....Either
The info I found in the search is wrong,
I am loosing my mind,
Or someone put another mark on my flywheel.

Stu

[TheCabinetmaker]

If it were my old ass, I'd just go with option 2 and forget it. Oh wait, I forgot. what were we talking about?

[Java2570]

Factory notch will be at the top of the trans @ TDC #1.....I added a paint mark 180 degrees from that notch for reference on my flywheel.

[malcolm2]

So to verify TDC, I need to look for or feel for the flywheel mark. I remember something about a flywheel mark during assembly, so I have one. And since I see nothing from the bottom I am betting I will feel it on top.

With that, the rocker position on #1 just after intake closes and the homemade marks and writing on my fan, I feel pretty good about TDC. So I will proceed with Stu's "alternate #1" Dizzy cap wiring and the Pelican static timing, all that after I put the champange on ice, cause this is going to do it, right?

I was almost positive that I had EVERYTHING lined up for #1 at TDC during assembly. Anyone have an idea of how this happened? Is the only answer that I got the distributor drive gear 180 degrees out?

I re-read thru the manuals and the directions are clear. The drive gear slot is off-set to one side, they show the proper angle with the case seam, they have pictures and everything. Maybe since the engine was not on the car, I somehow was looking at it upside down? Damn this really sucks!

[stugray]

Confusion resolved: I have the notch (visible at the top with #1 @ TDC) AND a white mark 180 degrees from that like Java mentioned.
So I can see the white mark from below when the engine is at TDC #1.

So I am not losing my mind, just my memory.

However I struggled to get the timing right repeatedly until I found TDC #1 and then set the static timing with the volt meter.
The engine would backfire and act like it wanted to start after 5 times trying to set it the wrong way.

Once I found REAL TDC #1 and set timing using the static method, the engine fired up on the first crank.

I also realized that in my setup (carbs & temporary 009 dizzy) I have a lot of rotation of the dizzy available.
I can essentially turn it all the way around if I want.
So since you do not have as much adjustment available with the SVDA, it might be possible to get the dist drive gear installed with a clocking such that you might never get it to work without pulling the gear.

Stu

[stugray]

Is the only answer that I got the distributor drive gear 180 degrees out?

I re-read thru the manuals and the directions are clear. The drive gear slot is off-set to one side, they show the proper angle with the case seam, they have pictures and everything. Maybe since the engine was not on the car, I somehow was looking at it upside down?

I followed Jake's video and installed the drive gear and dist while the engine halves were still split.
Even verifying it looked exactly like in Jake's video and a helper verifying it, I still did not get the clocking right.

However in my application, it does not matter.

Stu

[Bob L.]

Malcolm,
Have you tried the #1 wire on the right rear tower? you were asked if if it was on the right rear and answered that it was "still on the front".

Maybe I missed it but I don't see in the conversation where you did that. It sounds like the dizzy is off by 180Deg but with #1wire on the right front you're still off by 90.

[Bartlett 914]

Did you ever check your compression?