Son wants a 944 as a DD, After a couple of stick driving lessons - he is using it daily Options

[3d914]

What about a 914?

ripper, 914's don't make good first vehicles for a driver without a garage to do repairs or a second car as a backup. My son thought otherwise (against my advice) and guess where his sits now - in my driveway!

[r_towle]

Axel had an aircooled beetle and a 924s
abel started on a 914
Arlo had a jeep


Of all of them, the 924s was the most modern, pretty simple to fix and just kept going and going......all sorts of little problems, but nothing that you would be scared about fixing or could not handle.....even a super cheap one.

I would suggest you don't get him a turbo....they are really quick, and turbos are not cheap to replace....

944 is a decent first car, if you do the timing belt ( not rocket science) the rest is standard car stuff, vw electronics and switches etc...

Rich

[mgp4591]

Hmmm... newer driver, New England winters, sketchy conditions. I'd opt for a Subaru also. Preferably one with a 2.2 or an upgraded 2.5 (with the newer head gaskets) Pretty much bulletproof platform, good and safe plus all wheel drive for the nasty stuff. Relatively cheap to fix and plenty of used parts everywhere. It's been my DD for years and I've pushed snow with the front bumper all the way up the canyon when I'm working at Snowbird without a problem. A 2000 Impreza with a manual is a blast to drift in when the snow is deep too- give him some experience in full throttle opposite lock control! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[scotty b]

Mercedes 300 T.D.

Volvo 850 or S70, pre '99's

Bulletproof cars. I've personally worked on 300 T.D.'s with well over 500,000 and my 98 S70 will hit 326,000 by the end of the week with the steering rack being the most major repair done, and that was at 231,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Volvo's biggest issue is the front suspension is a shit design that wears out prematurely. and it's FWD (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

[r_towle]

Mercedes 300 T.D.

Volvo 850 or S70, pre '99's

Bulletproof cars. I've personally worked on 300 T.D.'s with well over 500,000 and my 98 S70 will hit 326,000 by the end of the week with the steering rack being the most major repair done, and that was at 231,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Volvo's biggest issue is the front suspension is a shit design that wears out prematurely. and it's FWD (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

Prematurely... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif)

Monthly...or at least annually.

[scott_in_nh]

So the Turbo one was sold, but he found another NA one down in Mass.
Too many young DB's in the area that have spoiled any subaru or Honda for him (which I get).

Pretty much shot down everything I showed him (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Two last shots here as were are going to look at the red NA 944 on Sunday.

1) I am going to insist we at least drive some of the cars he is shooting down before I will take him to the 944.

2) He does like Mini's, wants a green one and I have fouind one near by, but it will likely cost ME a grand (which I have been holding in reserve assuming whatever he gets would need it).

Rich knows us and I agree that if we at least get a decent 944 it might not be the end of the world....

[jasons]

944 is a decent first car, if you do the timing belt ( not rocket science) the rest is standard car stuff, vw electronics and switches etc...

This sounds like the 914 myths people used to believe. You remember, the one where they're just VW's? Gentle reminder, those parts come with Porsche part numbers, are distributed by Porsche in Porsche boxes, and as a result come with Porsche price tags.

Yes, the timing belt job is not hard. But, by the book, it requires a $600 special tool to tension the belt correctly. You can roll the dice on other ways to tension the belt if you can stomach a little more risk. And where Japanese belts will easily go 80k miles, the 944 belts should be replaced at around 35k miles to be safe.

The clutch job on the other hand... This will test every trick you have ever learned working on cars. It will test every tool you have, and it will ruin the clothes you are wearing. Porsche book time on the clutch is around 16 hours, add 8 more for the home mechanic. If you take that to the professional mechanic, multiply 16 X $100+/hour and add parts and while-yer-intheres. I can only imagine how many nice $4000 944's are sitting in junk yards now because someone didn't want to foot that bill.

I may sound alarmist, but my 944 experience was not great. And I bought the car right. It came with a stack of 1 owner records for around 10 years detailing every belt and clutch from a certified Porsche mechanic. I was well within the limits of both and they still failed. I can't predict what someone else's 944 experience would be. But, I can tell you the stakes are raised with those cars.

The unfortunate paradox of the 944 is, Porsche nailed the body. They are still gorgeous, and zinc dipped so they don't rust. But a blown clutch will salvage the car.

If you can't get away from the cool euro car thing, you might consider an E36 M3 or 3 series coupe.

[jasons]

It looks like Arnworx now has a viable alternative belt tension tool. Arnnworx is the goto place for your 944 belt job tools. For tensioning you used to either need the Porsche $600 tool, or a cheap little thing called a Cricket that barely works.

If you end up with a 944, this is his complete belt job tool kit which is pretty much mandatory for the belt job.

http://www.arnnworx.com/catalog/index.php?...88#.U7QfA5RdUVA

[scott_in_nh]

If you can't get away from the cool euro car thing, you might consider an E36 M3 or 3 series coupe.

Yeah it is a Euro car thing with him, but I am trying to get him in a front or AWD as our winters are pretty severe at times.

Anybody have experience with NA Mini Coopers? Seems like my only hope of steering him away from the 944.

[jasons]

You do realize the 944 is RWD right?

[scotty b]

my 944's have been one of the best non-4wd vehicles I have had in the snow, and around here our snow is more of an ice pack. I have numerous times out driven the average FWD car in bad conditions. Steering wheels and drive wheels on opposite ends of the car which IMHO is a far better bet than having your drive and steering wheels as one in the same.

In a nutshell, if you buy one, do the water pump and belts right off the bat and check on the belt at around 2500 miles, then check them periodically after that. Would be a good idea to do the oil cooler seal while you're in there the first time. That is one of the biggest PITA jobs on the car bar none. I've done 3 clutches in a gravel driveway by myself and 2 on a lift with help. No it's not fun, but it isn't a reason to scrap an otherwise decent car. And FWIW a very mildly setup 944 will out handle a 914 or 911 any day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif) flame on

[scott_in_nh]

You do realize the 944 is RWD right?

Of course I do, but it has a weight distribution much closer to 50:50 than most RWD and a young 944 owner at a car show told him it was not bad in the winter with winter tires.
I was doing ok until he heard that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

What I tell him that he doesn't want to hear = (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bs.gif)

What strangers tell him that he wants to hear = (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[mgp4591]

my 944's have been one of the best non-4wd vehicles I have had in the snow, and around here our snow is more of an ice pack. I have numerous times out driven the average FWD car in bad conditions. Steering wheels and drive wheels on opposite ends of the car which IMHO is a far better bet than having your drive and steering wheels as one in the same.

In a nutshell, if you buy one, do the water pump and belts right off the bat and check on the belt at around 2500 miles, then check them periodically after that. Would be a good idea to do the oil cooler seal while you're in there the first time. That is one of the biggest PITA jobs on the car bar none. I've done 3 clutches in a gravel driveway by myself and 2 on a lift with help. No it's not fun, but it isn't a reason to scrap an otherwise decent car. And FWIW a very mildly setup 944 will out handle a 914 or 911 any day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif) flame on

I agree so far as power and steering on the same axle unless you're very careful (and talented) but my all wheel drive kicks out in back first like a rwd and is very controllable. So far as your 944 outdriving the fwd cars, it's probably due to your skill and not the others' drivetrain setup. I learned winter driving in Md. and continue with those skills in Utah and it sure is fun when the little Subie outperforms the big boys in their lifted 4x4s- you know, the guys who wear the Affliction t-shirts and the white sunglasses... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[rhodyguy]

i went shopping/tire kicking with a friend that thinks he wants a used mini. used retail is quite high, imho, and you need to watch what year you buy. back seat leg room is nonexistent. sitting in one i found the driving position odd to say the least.

[scotty b]

Dr. Evil can school you on Mini's. I've got to say I was really impressed when he brought his down. Fist time I had been in one. I see how they can be addictive (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

I have a 2012 MINI Cooper (non-S). You won't find a 2nd-gen (2007-2013) MINI that you would want to drive for $5K.

The 1st-gen ones have problems with:
- Strut towers mushrooming
- Spark plugs staying in the heads
- CVTs (continuously-variable transmission; the auto gearbox for some years)
- 5-speed transmissions

The plugs seem to be hit-and-miss. The others are things that will go wrong at some point. Everything but the CVT is fixable for some amount of money and hassle.

--DD

[jasons]

I've done 3 clutches in a gravel driveway by myself and 2 on a lift with help. No it's not fun, but it isn't a reason to scrap an otherwise decent car. And FWIW a very mildly setup 944 will out handle a 914 or 911 any day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif) flame on

I agree it's no reason to scrap one. But I can only imagine how many people bought the $3k 944 they've wanted since they watched Jake drive one in 16 Candles find themselves on the wrong end of a clutch replacement estimate.

FWIW, the best non 4x4 snow car I had was a 74 Beetle. It plowed through everything.

[scott_in_nh]

I have a 2012 MINI Cooper (non-S). You won't find a 2nd-gen (2007-2013) MINI that you would want to drive for $5K.

The 1st-gen ones have problems with:
- Strut towers mushrooming
- Spark plugs staying in the heads
- CVTs (continuously-variable transmission; the auto gearbox for some years)
- 5-speed transmissions

The plugs seem to be hit-and-miss. The others are things that will go wrong at some point. Everything but the CVT is fixable for some amount of money and hassle.

--DD

Thanks Dave,
I'm sure you are correct - I found a 2004 and 2006 for under $5k with the 5 speed.
The mushrooming shock towers are easy enough to detect and I believe the fix is easy too.
Hadn't heard about the spark plugs.
I did see where synchros were not available for the 5 speed requiring a new box (or used I suppose).
I wouldn't buy a CVT in anything.

So knowing what you do, would you drive a mid-eighties 944 or an 8 -10 year old Mini, non-S, 5-speed?

[scott_in_nh]

This one is in a color he likes and the mileage is reasonable:

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/4521013251.html

This one is high mileage, but I lived around the corner from it and have seen the car and it was adult driven, has to be highway miles to put 26.5k/year and (knowing the neighborhood) maintained by somebody with money.

http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/4507642646.html

[Cap'n Krusty]

IME, stuck spark plugs are the result of believing the BS sales pitch that they need to be changed at 50, 60, 75, 100K (take your pick) miles. Change them at 40K max, use antisieze.

The Cap'n