Michellin sucks, -ruined the USGP Options

[TimT]

Michelin tires were on the the 1-2 finishing cars at LeMans this very same weekend.

And there were apparently no issues with the Michelin tires at the Canadian GP, I wonder what happened?

The green light should never have been turned on, but I have no idea how they would explain no race at all?

[Joe Bob]

Simple, Michelin+French=surrender....

Next question.... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)

[lapuwali]

Erik, regardless of whether Bernie sold the TV rights for a profit or not, he no longer controls them, and appears to have lost control of Mosley. Therefore, he's lost much of whatever control of F1 he used to enjoy.

As for the insurance angle on the chicane, this was never mentioned as a concern. Not only did the teams agree to a chicane, but Tony George and Bernie also agreed. I'm not entirely certain if the FIA even has insurance to indemnify them from action from the teams (only they would sue). The teams and each driver have their own insurance. The legal structure of the FIA basically requires that all teams agree to submit to arbitration, so the lawsuit threat is a pretty minor one.

There is, in fact, at least one precedent for a last-minute track change in adding a temp. chicane: Spa in 1994, at the foot of Eau Rouge. I forget the details of why it was added, but it was very much added at the last minute, and Bernie even brought this up during the discussions. This whole "we can negotiate the rules" business is horseshit, plain and simple.

Michelin wouldn't warrant the tires as safe, and that would have exposed the teams to potential legal action from the drivers (or their estates). No reason was given for the teams not accepting the tire changing offer. I don't accept the "just slow down" offer. That's just absurd. Slow down how much? For how long? No one knew the answer to this. No one really knew how long the tires would last at full speed either, which may be why the teams didn't accept the tire changing offer. Michelin may also have not brought enough tires to change even one left rear 6 times for 14 cars. Indeed, the FIA specifically enjoins the tire makers from bringing "too many" tires. The teams are, after all, only allowed to use two sets during the entire weekend, with two types allow, so four sets of tires per car. They'd already used one set for practice, so even with the extras flown in, Michelin may have only had another 4 sets for each car. We don't know how many they brought in (likely only one set per car, since presumably that would be all they'd need because of the one-tire rule), so even if they HAD accepted the tire changing, it's likely we would have had only 6 finishers, and perhaps a very serious accident or two along the way.

The "due diligence" angle is also invalid. NONE of the teams make test visits to EVERY track. Indeed, they're not ALLOWED to under the limited testing rules. Michelin doesn't make testing visits to all tracks, and neither do Bridgestone.

I don't excuse Michelin. They f-ed up, plain and simple. That's not the issue. The issue was how the FIA responded to an unprecented problem. In my view, they didn't have to bend very far to have a full grid, and the teams bent VERY far to try to make the race happen.

[seanery]

the only teams that "bent" were the Michellin teams...they were the teams that had something to gain by a compromise.

Michellin is 100% to blame for this...no one else.

[Thorshammer]

Due diligence is testing at all circuits by different teams, you are right not all teams are able to test a each given circuit. But there was testing for Michelin at Indy. But the data was either useless or not looked at. However, by Michelins own admission,they did not bring a second tire following the rules "a second tire must be available that will offer less performance but be absolutely reliable"

As for The FIA and Ecclefuck, you are aware the FIA and F1 are separate entities? Ecclejunk in control of Mosley, it certainly does not look like it to me. One point of interest is Tony George (via Chitwood) claims no knowledge of the request for a chicane to be installed? Now, I think this is probably BS, I think he knew and the teams would have put him on alert in case they got their way with the FIA.

I don't disagree that slowing down for turn 13 is absurd, but so is michelin not fulfilling their contractual obligations. As for coming in without penalty to change any tire they felt they needed to at will. This IS a solution to the problem. As for Ferrari not willing to allow the Chicane. I think if the shoe was on the other foot, would 7 other teams assist Ferrari to compete. I do not think they would. You forget, some of these teams have 100m+ dollar budgets. Any advantage is exploited, remember traction control. I also remember the Ferrari's with tire woes earlier this year, and I did'nt hear of anyone changing the course or rules to allow them to compete without incident.

I think the tire rules are ridiculous! This is not F1 it's F1 endurance. It's a joke.

All we are going to see in the next few days is finger pointing. Michelin will have to get the monkey off their back, and the finger will point at Indy. Ecclestone will point the finger at Mosley and the team managers and Michelin. Michelin will kiss Eccleballs ass because they want to be the next single tire supplier to F1. Joke.
As for Ferrari, Michael will most likely step down as driver representative for his lack of support, or perceived lack of support.

There will be no refunds, as Tony G will not give anything back. Champcar will offer free admission to their next race with a USGP ticket stub, using it as a marketing ploy to gain new fans to champcar racing.

Also a new sanctioning body will be formed and several teams will defect with Eccleanus out of the picture, tracks will be hard to come by and the sport will suffer. but thats just the stuff out of my crystal balls, how about yours?

Erik Madsen

[Jeroen]

QUOTE (seanery @ Jun 21 2005, 04:13 AM)

the only teams that "bent" were the Michellin teams...they were the teams that had something to gain by a compromise. Michellin is 100% to blame for this...no one else.

Agian... NOT TRUE
The Michelin teams had nothing to gain anymore
They were ready to accept any penalty the FIA/F1 deemed needed
They just wanted to run and not let down the crowds

9 out of 10 teams had agreed to the chicane (so that includes 2 b-stone teams)

Here's a quote from Paul Stodard (Minardi, which is a Bridgestone team)

QUOTE

“First of all, our sincere apologies go out to the race fans, both here at Indianapolis and indeed, around the world, for the farce that took place at Indianapolis this afternoon. This really was a time when Formula One needed to put sport above politics, but sadly, this did not occur. Earlier on today, nine of the 10 competing teams had agreed that, in the interests of safety, a temporary chicane needed to be placed before the final turn, and that unless that took place, the nine teams would not compete. “This idea was rejected by FIA President, Max Mosley, and in no uncertain terms, the teams were told that, should this occur, there would be no race. This, in my opinion, is clearly not in the interests of the sport, the American public, or Formula One fans around the world. “I have complete sympathy with the Michelin teams, and can take neither satisfaction from, nor interest in, this afternoon’s race, if you can call it that. For the avoidance of doubt, Minardi only participated when it became clear that Jordan had changed its decision to compete from this morning. “I sincerely hope that valuable lessons are taken away from here today before we destroy the sport we love with politics. A solution, which would have allowed the United States Grand Prix to have proceeded unaffected today existed, but was resisted by the FIA and not supported by Ferrari, who claimed it was not their problem”.

[mudfoot76]

In spite of being bitter about this whole situation, I went ahead and renewed my tickets in hope that maybe the F1 race in Indy might be saved. We did this last year, and were treated to drive a lap around the track. Last year, we sat in a traffic jam for an hour just to get into the Speedway, then it was bumper to bumper all the way around.

Yesterday, the place was deserted. I nearly had the entire circuit to myself. Too bad the speed limit is 30 mph (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

If this is any indication of the public interest, the Indy race is dead. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mad.gif)

At least if they do still run something next year, I can probably sit anywhere I damn well please....

[rhodyguy]

how you guys can even endure sitting through a complete F1 race is beyond me.

k

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (seanery @ Jun 20 2005, 07:13 PM)

the only teams that "bent" were the Michellin teams...they were the teams that had something to gain by a compromise. Michellin is 100% to blame for this...no one else.

Oddly enough, the FIA itself doesn't agree with you. They released the charges against the teams, and specifically blame the TEAMS for not bringing the correct equipment, despite the fact that the teams aren't at all responsible for the tires Michelin bring to the event.

[Jeroen]

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Jun 21 2005, 03:19 PM)

how you guys can even endure sitting through a complete F1 race is beyond me. k

We have 2 excellent F1 commentators here
They know their shit, have strong opinions and a good sense of humor
Listening to these guys alone is worth it (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[rhodyguy]

i'll be booking a flight promptly then. do the brown cafes televise the races? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

k

[Jeroen]

yeah, but they don't come with english subtitles (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Thorshammer]

Jeroen,


Just take him window shopping and he will forget that he was there to see a race.

Erik

[rhodyguy]

btdt, 1976. all i did was window shop. i was dating a wee scotish gal so i spent my money on the necessities.

k

[Jeroen]

read em and weep (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/new...622131809.shtml

[J P Stein]

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jun 22 2005, 08:33 AM)

read em and weep (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/new...622131809.shtml

This is funny.
Here's a guy putting jam on both sides of the toast then trying to eat it without getting his hands dirty.....oughta be in the US senate.

[Mueller]

sorta OT...anyone have this book??



Ferrari Formula 1: Under the Skin of the Championship-Winning F1-2000 by Peter G. Wright


if so, worth getting???

sounds like an interesting book

[maf914]

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 22 2005, 11:40 AM)

sorta OT...anyone have this book?? Ferrari Formula 1: Under the Skin of the Championship-Winning F1-2000 by Peter G. Wright

No, but I read A Mechanic's Tale, Life in the Fast Lane, by Steve Matchett, this past year and enjoyed it. It is not a great book in the sense of a classic, but it gives an idea of what a mechanics life in an F1 team is like. The author was a mechanic on the Bennetton team before and during the Scumacher years and is now one of the Speed F1 commentators.

And I will admit that I watch most F1 broadcasts, although I find the recent CBS broadcasts to be terrible relative to those presented by Speed. The CBS broadcastors made so many mistakes during the recent Canadian GP that it wasn't funny. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/blink.gif)

[groot]

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jun 22 2005, 08:33 AM)

read em and weep (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif) http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/new...622131809.shtml

Darth Mosely strikes again!!!

[F1rocco]

What was it like 6 Michelin teams that boycotted two FIA F1 2005 meetings already this year...So dont burn your bridges....Punks..The Scott Speed debut/noshow is what really pisses me off..............