Video Camera Questions, considering installing an in-car cam Options

[byndbad914]

Thanks for the tips, Nathan. I went ahead and bought the Canon hv20 high def camcorder. (So now I'm 1000 dollars poorer thanks to your video of Yarin in high def! LOL) Read lots of good things about it. I recorded one autocross video with it but it came out too jittery. Afterwards, i found out that one clamp was loose on the io port camera mount. DOH! Worked well for vacation too! One question. What do you use to edit your videos?

I use Sony Vegas. Way before I picked up a camera I was an audio engineer for Sesame Street. Sony Vegas started it's life 10-15 years ago as a program for audio engineers. So the controls are laid out like a multitrack recorder and make alot more sense to me then say Premiere or Final Cut. I also never have issues with taking in different formats like all my friends have with the other programs. My system is pretty high end though. But Vegas is scalable.

My computer has 3 32inch widescreen monitors, 2 quad core processors and runs blackmagic decklink with Vegas. I have a terrabyte of storage localy and a file server with another 10 terrabytes. Have a few other toys around but that's primarily what I use.

so in other words.... we all know who to send raw footage to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[turboman808]

so in other words.... we all know who to send raw footage to (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Hey if you guys ever want to do a 914 dvd I can do that easy. I have so many resources at my disposal. I can mass produce 1 million disc in a month if need be.

So doing a few thousand for the 914 club would be a drop in the bucket and alot of fun for me to do.

You guys want it and want to send the footage to me I will have it done and pressed and shipped in 2 months.

It would be a nice change from the ricer, drifting and illegal racing dvds I do right now.

[John]

Ok,

I have done my first experimentation at recording sessions at the DE I attended last weekend. I'm still trying to learn about the video editing.

I am using my wife's Sony DCR-HC40. It records to 60 minute DV tape.

I used some capture/editing software and successfully burned my first DVDs. On a regular (non high definition) Television, the image looks ok. Similar to that of a VHS Video Camera.

I used a fixed focus and a fixed exposure to do the recording.

Right now, I am trying to figure out what the different formats offer. All these video files are HUGE!!

I have a few questions:

1. What resolution constitutes High-Def? (it seems that HD video records in the 1080 lines. mine is 520 lines and it really makes a huge difference.)
2. If using DIVX format, the file size should be approx 10MB per minute? (don't know yet, but this seems optimistic.)
3. Is DIVX a codec that can be downloaded or is it a format the editing software must include? (Yes, DivX seems to be a downloadable codec that can work in other software)
4. Would an updated editing/conversion software be of benefit? I currently use an old version of Pinnacle Studio. (It may, but the real limit is the source file resolution)


For me, this seems to be a big learning curve, but it's fun to review/record driving sessions.

I've only been doing DE's for 20 years now, but am nearly a novice at the in-car-camera thing.

P.S. My 17 minute MPEG video is 257 MB. (a little large to upload somewhere)


EDIT: I answered most of my own questions.....



So far, I believe that the best setup would be the highest resolution DV camera that you can afford that records to DV tape. Tape being preferred due to robust design (due to vibrations).

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[ConeDodger]

I use an I/O Port mount that attaches to my harness bar. To this I attach my JVC Everio digital video camera. It has an internal hard drive that is good for much longer than track sessions or autocross runs. I then attach the camera to the optional JVC DVD burner that I bought along with it. Quality is good enough that I can see my mistakes which is what I want it for... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[John]

Here is a link to my first attempt:


3 laps at Heartland Park

It did suffer from compression, but it does work.

[ChrisFoley]

That looks good John.
Your camera mount appears to flex a lot though.

[John]

That looks good John.
Your camera mount appears to flex a lot though.

Are you referring to the vibrations? The mount is currently welded to the firewall (which does flex quite a bit). I am considering bracing it a bit to reduce the bouncing if I can make it light enough. There isn't too much there to mount to. I looked at your in-car footage on your site. Yours does not vibrate at all.... How did you do that?



Thanks for the feedback.

I think it went well for the first attempt. I was a little disappointed with the resolution, but after seeing the prices for High Definition cameras, I think I will stick to what I already own.

Do you have any pictures of how you mounted your cam? I'm always looking for ideas.

[Dominic L]

It did suffer from compression, but it does work.

John, check this link for tips on uploading video to youtube. I haven't tried it but the sample videos they show sure look good.

http://www.squidoo.com/youtuberight/

On another note, I'm having some problems with my canon hv20 (hi definition, tape) in the car environment.
Once the car is moving, the videos become nearly unwathchable because of the vibration. I/O port mount, manual focus, antishake on and still terrible. Nice picture when the car is moving slowly though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[John]

Thanks for the tip. I'll go read that.

In the mean time, here is (by popular demand) the quick way to destroy 4 perfectly good (and almost new) tires. (Sorry Dad)

Anyway, they asked for it......

What not to do on the first run of the day.....

[wobbletop]

Thanks for the tip. I'll go read that.

In the mean time, here is (by popular demand) the quick way to destroy 4 perfectly good (and almost new) tires. (Sorry Dad)

Anyway, they asked for it......

What not to do on the first run of the day.....

Was that a throttle lift spin?

I'm new to 914's and have been driving a WRX wagon on time trial days (pretty easy to drive). I'm considering taking the 914 to the track someday, most likely at a driving school first. I'm just a little concerned about people saying the 914 spins REALLY quick.

Thanks,
Walter

[John]

Was that a throttle lift spin?

I'm new to 914's and have been driving a WRX wagon on time trial days (pretty easy to drive). I'm considering taking the 914 to the track someday, most likely at a driving school first. I'm just a little concerned about people saying the 914 spins REALLY quick.

Thanks,
Walter

It wasn't what I would consider the classic drop throttle-oversteer.

I still think the main contributors to this slide were:

1. Cold driver, cold tires, cold brain, cold track
2. Continuing to turn at the crest of the hill (I normally try to drive straight through that turn)


Once the back end stepped out, the car didn't respond to counter-steering. I was at or close to full lock with the wheel before giving up and standing on the brake pedal. At that point, I was more concerned with stopping (and avoiding the concrete barriers lining both sides of the track), so both feet in.

It sure felt like it took more time for the car to get out of shape and then stop than it did in that video. Perhaps time compresses during those events.

I think the last time I spun was 5+ years ago.

When properly set up, 914's are incredibly stable cars and can be driven very quickly.

[ChrisFoley]

Are you referring to the vibrations? The mount is currently welded to the firewall (which does flex quite a bit). I am considering bracing it a bit to reduce the bouncing if I can make it light enough. There isn't too much there to mount to. I looked at your in-car footage on your site. Yours does not vibrate at all.... How did you do that?

The vibrations are something I expect. The flex is visible by watching the position of the turn signal hump move around on the screen. Any triangulated bracing should diminish this substantially.
Actually I think mine vibrates a lot but not continuously, mostly just from hitting bumps and curbing. I use an IO port mount that mounts on the roll cage. It offers a wide adjustment range to position the camera.
As far as resolution goes, you have to make a trade off between file size and picture quality. I save the highest resolutions for very short clips.

[John]

The vibrations are something I expect. The flex is visible by watching the position of the turn signal hump move around on the screen. Any triangulated bracing should diminish this substantially.
Actually I think mine vibrates a lot but not continuously, mostly just from hitting bumps and curbing. I use an IO port mount that mounts on the roll cage. It offers a wide adjustment range to position the camera.
As far as resolution goes, you have to make a trade off between file size and picture quality. I save the highest resolutions for very short clips.

I'm finding that out about the resolution. Short clips seem to be small enough to upload.

I made my mount. It is welded to the firewall (which flexes). I have a plan to add an angle iron brace to stiffen up the firewall in the location of the camera mount. It should reduce the movement considerably.

I still wonder if some of the movement could be inherent in the camera stabilization mechanism....

[John]

Watch as the Chevron goes past!

That thing was FAST.

[John]

It did suffer from compression, but it does work.

John, check this link for tips on uploading video to youtube. I haven't tried it but the sample videos they show sure look good.

http://www.squidoo.com/youtuberight/

On another note, I'm having some problems with my canon hv20 (hi definition, tape) in the car environment.
Once the car is moving, the videos become nearly unwathchable because of the vibration. I/O port mount, manual focus, antishake on and still terrible. Nice picture when the car is moving slowly though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

I tried all those tips, but none have seemed to help at all. My original method seems to be the best so far, but I'm fairly confident that I'm missing many things.

[TimT]

All the videos posted on my site were made using a Sony MiniDV camera (forgot which exact model), mounted to the rollbar with the I/O port mount.

One trick is to keep the arm of the mount as short as possible, another is to use a wide angle lens and set the focus to infinity. Im not sure if my camera has image stabilization or not.

Most of the clips are taken in a 800hp car with 700# and 900# springs....

I use ulead software to edit and compress the clips.

Video clips.

[John]

WOW Tim,

That was fun.

It was good to see Summit Point again. It's been a long long time. That is the first track I ever drove on. Watkins Glen was the second.

That is some car (the turbo)

It seems as if your camera moves around as much as mine does. It helps me to view other's video so I can see how it was encoded:

Video encoder version
resolution
Frames per second
Bitrate

It seems like I have been using too high of bitrate when encoding my low res videos.

I am also going to experiment with the settings when originally capturing the video from the DV camera.

[TimT]

OK I just checked what kind of camera I do have, Sony TRV11 MiniDV, it doesnt have image stabilization.

Im wondering if alot of what is percieved as camera movement is the camera moving with the car, for example Lime Rock is a pretty rough track, the camera seems to be moving more than it does at smoother tracks like Roebling or Watkins Glen.

The 935 is hardly smooth riding with the spring rates we run.... some of those shocks are reflected by the camera since it is coupled directly to the car.

Its been awhile since Ive posted new video so Ill have to relearn how to edit and compress.....Carolina Motosports Park is coming up in two weeks.
All the info on my videos is available if you look in thr properties of the video, but you probably know that already.

[John]

Im wondering if alot of what is percieved as camera movement is the camera moving with the car, for example Lime Rock is a pretty rough track, the camera seems to be moving more than it does at smoother tracks like Roebling or Watkins Glen.

If the camera was moving with the car, there would be no "point of view" changes, but since the parts of the car that are in frame change locations in the frame, the camera and car are moving with relation to each other. At least that is what mine is doing slightly. I'm stiffening my mount up a bit and that will be that. If it moves after that, I'll live with it.

The video already shows me what I was after.

[turboman808]

I got to film with Chris one day a few months ago. It didn't go as well as I would have liked.

1. My friend was using the larger camera that I normaly use in the pits and on the side of the track. So I only had my in car camera.

2. I had never filmed in a open cockpit car before. Chipped the lense to death. I didn't notice it till later and all the stuff I filmed afterwards was kinda shot.

Both these things kinda bit me in the ass. But you live and learn. Have 3 cameras incase one is broken or lost. Have to get out there again with Chris this year.


But I got some cool in car of him racing.
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v12639924QhkK9DM?c=porschetv


For the internet you don't really need HD quality. I edit in HD but down convert for the net. What I find is even if I upload in HD most people can't watch it. Even my home computer cannot play HD quality.



OH incase this didn't come up. Hard Drive and DVD cameras don't work in race cars. To much vibration. I would imagine in a few years you will see 20 gig compact flash cards replace tape which would be really nice.