Sweet, '70 914-6 Options

[davep]

Get a copy of the website, I did. Save the pages as an archive (mht) to show how it is being portrayed. Spent its life as a race car? Where is a D6 CAT when you need one? Do an ownership trace and get documentation from every willing owner.
Best of luck, and keep us posted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[TimT]

dudes and dudettes

that add on the canillo motorsport website was prepared before the cars heritage fell apart...basically the new owner got beer goggles... thought he was buying a piece of history.. We all know the car isnt what the last buyer represented it as..

So far I have Pano adds from '91... someone who owned the 914/4 part in '00..

Can I ask you all to NOT email canillo protesting the lineage of the car. or any other sort of witty questions?

large sums of money were involved...

again thank you all

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[richardL]

I have a feeling that the ad by Canillo (or similar) was protested when it first appeared - I recall an ad for a 914-6GT that Lawrence (Rusty) contacted and he changed the ad. Maybe it was another similar deal, but I suspect it was the same person - you might want to search for that thread as it would show for certain that he knew what he had to sell.

Richard

[jtf914]

Wow...Great story, this is something that could only be pieced together on this board. From Dave's second hand description of the -6 and the fact that the "GT" has the ignition in the wrong place it sounds like maybe only the serial numbers were stolen (The one good piece Dave didn't get from the car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) ).

If a -4 column was mounted on a -6 dash (assuming it is a -6 tub and the dash wasn't cut out) then there should be holes in the dash for the -6 ignition and the shear bolts which hold it on.

In addition, people have posted differences in the -6 dash which accommadate for the 911 steering column (maybe someone can explain how to see the differences).

If it's a -6 tub (or an early -4), it won't have the recessed areas for the retractable seat belts.

If it's a -6 tub (or an early -4), it won't have the extra brace in the front of the front trunk.

Obviously, check the engine mount and see if it's an original mount (Or any evidnece that the -4 mounts were removed).

Anyone know of other tub differences between early and late tubs, or -4 and -6 tubs??

-Justin

[Bleyseng]

Also the jack mounts which are difference on early 4-6's and later 4's.

Yes, the bracket that the steering column mounts to is different on a 6 vs a 4.

What about the bell crank on the tranny?

The heat shield should be attached by screws not welded on.

Geoff

[djm914-6]

I got the /6 dash too!

If this GT look is the original chassis for that VIN, I would look for green paint somewhere. I can't imagine anyone would fully strip a bent tub without making sure it could be made right again. If it can't be aligned, it's not right. Having read all of the various posts on this car, I pretty sure it the donor for my car. I placed a call to the PO to see if he could shed some light. Maybe he'll call back.

[jtf914]

I even got the other cars floor pan, battery tray and dash.

OK, well forget that idea.... I thought you meant the dash pad, not the WHOLE dash. No wonder that car has a column out of a -4. Did you get the original engine mount too??

TimT please give this guy a beer before you break all this news to him...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

-Justin

[djm914-6]

I spoke with the PO of my car tonight. He said he sold the /6 tub to a gentleman for $500. He tracked the car to one other person in Maine then lost it. Bob said he'll stop by here for a visite and may even post some pics of the wrecked car.

[TimT]

Oh the other guy already knows, he is starting litigation, with the amount of evidence the seller might be wise to return the money.. interesting to keep track of the car and see what it is when it surfaces again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[Spot]

Hi all -

I'm the previous owner of Dave's '70 /6 conversion. I just talked to him tonight, and am sorry to hear that some subsequent owner of the old original /6 tub has been misrepresented it as a GT.

Here are the facts that I know:

I bought the /6 (914 043 0116) as an insurance salvage sometime in the mid-late 80s (don't remember the exact date). It was obviously totalled, but the engine ran, so I paid (I think) $3000 for it from a garage in Boston. It seemed to be an original 6 (correct VIN for a 6, key in dash, front motor mount attached to firewall). However it was trashed: wrecked with a frontal impact; passenger compartment was collapsed about 6" (side frame rails bent); badly rusted floorpan; filled with trash (old papers, cassette tapes, empty beer cans, some home-rolled substance in the ashtray, etc.). Big head impact in the windshield, and the steering wheel had collapsed from the driver hitting it, but no blood apparent so hopefully the driver wasn't too badly off. The firewall had been pushed forward a few inches from mass of the engine pushing forward during impact. From the firewall back, it wasn't in bad shape. The VIN was visible on the front wheelwell; I recall seeing it in one other place but couldn't recall where it was until reading this thread. There *was* a service receipt in it from a garage on Long Island where the previous owner had had it serviced. The car had regular 914 fenders (no flares), steel hood and trunk, etc. BTW the wreck was green when I bought it, and was obviously green from the factory.

I took some black&white photos of it when I bought the wreck. I've only found three that I'd scanned. I suppose I could look for more. I don't recall if I took any of the VIN, but it is possible. I don't know where I might have put them, but I'm pretty sure I didn't throw them away. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Here are the three I have readily available:

Wreck 1
Wreck 2
Floorpan Rust

I toyed with the idea of repairing the 6 chassis, but it was too much for me so I decided to buy a clean 4 chassis and do the transplant. I found one up in Maine, of all places; it was a 1970, 4-cyl. Ran fine, but the clutch slipped. Most importantly, the body was in good shape. I did the transplant (engine/trans, suspension/brakes, dash, hand throttle, washer pump, the works). All *except* the front motor mount and the VIN... Sorry Dave, but at least it saved you some money! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I sold the 4cyl engine+tranny to someone building a Bradley GT, of all things. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I gave away all the rest of the 4-cyl parts (suspension, etc.) since I'm sure nobody would have paid money for them. All that was left of the /6 was just the bent body. Everything, and I mean *EVERYTHING* that could be removed or unbolted, was.

I ended up selling the /6 hulk for $500 (as Dave mentioned). The person who bought it ended up selling it to another person who talked about building it into a 916 replica. After that, I lost touch of that chassis (until now!).

I had tried to sell the conversion through the Pano ad when I moved to a small apartment and lost my garage. I ended up getting other garage space, so I kept the car until 2000 when I sold it (as a converted 4-cyl) to Dave. Funny, I don't recall offering the /6 chassis for sale with the converted car, but now I do have some small recollection of contacting the person who bought the /6 chassis from me to see if he'd be willing to sell it with my converted car. Apparently he was willing, and that's why I offered both for sale in the ad.

I'm taken aback by the claim in the "914/6 GT" ad saying 9140430116 had been "raced all its life". It had clearly been driven (and trashed) as a regular street car before it was totalled and sold to me.

Sorry, this post has turned into a small novel. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I'll try to look for more photos and documentation.

Cheers,
- Bob Tillman

[rhodyguy]

this is a good story. i wonder what he drove in to. do you think they just cut the front end off and welded on a dif one? somebody's ass is in the wringer. it sounds you guys will have lots to talk about at breakfast when you all get called to testify.

kevin

[jtf914]

Hey Bob,

Welcome to the board. Those photo's are a little hard to take (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) , but thanks for sharing you're piece of this puzzle.


I wonder if the seller is a member here or if he's following this thread at all........

-Justin

[Porsche Rescue]

I may be a little confused about the sequence of owners here, but did the current owner get the car from Carillo Motor Sports? Seems to me from the ad that Jen posted that they are the deep pockets to get into. A dealer should know better.

[TimT]

Bob thanks for shedding some light on this.

To recap for those a bit confused, Canillo now owns the car, he brought it to our (my friends shop) for a going over. We noticed pretty quickly that something was amiss about the car, so I turned to the braintrust here to figure out what was going on, clearly it isnt a 914/6GT, which it was advertised as. We broke the news to Canillo that the cars wasnt what it was advertised as.. Thats when it all began

We are not sure its even a real six, although it does have a /6 vin.

Having seen the pics of the wrecked 6 tub, I would have written the car off. Somone could have welded a new front clip on, but with the engine being pushed forward would it be worth it repair the car? The amount of work to put a wreck like that back to roadworthy condition would be tremendous.

Possibly someone took the windshield vin tag and put it on another tub.
FWIW the windshield vin was the only identifying number we could on the car..no door jab tags, no number in the front trunk, nothing in the rear trunk.. nothing scribbled under the dash...


Canillo is a good guy, he just recently opened his business, and as I mentioned before he got "beer goggles" when he looked at this car.... didnt know enough about Porsches etc.., He approached the seller wanted to return the car, and get his money back.... The seller refused... hence the litigation.

The car is now at another shop that is more expert in documenting historical cars ( or not so historical)

Again thanks alll for the help... Ill keep you posted (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[krk]

Tim,

There are lots of relatively extreme body things that can be done. If you look in the P-manual, they expected to see people doing some of them -- cut lines are given, etc. Those were days where labor was cheap and exotic repairs considered possible. So having a 914 P-car body manual beside you as you examine may be of some use.

VIN replacement is considered a no-no. (duh)

There should be a vin stamped on the top of the passenger front fender. The windshield VIN was put on for North America. If there isn't a vin, there should be a flat spot for it. If the vin was ground out, the flat spot may be hollowed a bit, indicating forgery. If it's really flat with no number, the number may be there but filled with bondo prior to paint. Stripping may tell the story. (now, some folks have been known to cut and weld in the VIN piece of that fender -- that takes more work, but can likely be discovered as well)

If the front clip was welded on, I'd bet you can find where. You may have to grind or strip, but you can prolly find it. Other measurements will be your friend as well. If this body is the one from the pics -- which took a pretty good thump! -- it would be tough to get rid of every ripple, and to get each and every body measurement to line up. (Did you take the rockers off? It's harder to make seemless the things that have contour.)

There are lots of ways of identifying a correct /6 body -- brad, Quarl and others have pointed them out before and know them much bettter than I do. An easy one -- look at the holes for the return lines to the oil tank. They should be pressed steel -- the cut line of pressed steel is hard to mimic with a hole saw. (brad showed me that one) Getting other 914/body experts involved is a good move.

It sucks to purchase something that is not what was represented. I wish you (or your friend) the best of luck in recovery.

kim.

[TimT]

Editing cuz It needed to be edited (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[krk]

Hey Tim,

Didn't mean nothing by it -- you clearly know more about it than I do! But I'd be a dork if I didn't offer my two painfully earned bits if it might help.

Best of luck on the car.

kim.

[TimT]

Kim (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) I obviously got caught at a bad moment.. peace

[krk]

Hey Tim,

No worries man. Hey, I didn't take your original comments poorly -- yeh, I'd've dropped half my earlier post if I'd known more about you! Sheesh -- I'm glad you're on the bbs -- the voice of BTDT is a big part of this online community and I'm guessing you'll have some very choice bits to add on other threads. (when I bitch about my /6 engine, feel free to comment!)

And I meant the earlier "best of luck" comment -- bad transactions suck and I'm pretty sure this board will be more than happy to contrib to setting things right.

Or at least we'll make fun, and tell bad jokes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mueba.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

kim.

[seanery]

If I remember correctly, Kim you went through a butchered chasis as well, right?