Front end changeover in progress..., 8/8- Alignment woes |
|
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG.
This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way. Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners. |
|
Front end changeover in progress..., 8/8- Alignment woes |
jk76.914 |
Jun 23 2011, 07:06 PM
Post
#21
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Starting point. Those 5 lug adapters have been on there since I did my refurb back in 2003. They also served as 1" spacers to fill out my wheel wells. I'll be offering them up for sale in a bit.
Underneath the spacers are 5-lug drilled 914/4 rotors. They were new when drilled, and only have about 10,000 miles on them. I have the new lug studs that came with them. I'll also be offering them for sale after I get both sides off. Please don't contact me about buying any of this stuff until I post it in the FS forum. Thanks. |
Eric_Shea |
Jun 23 2011, 10:07 PM
Post
#22
|
PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Nice job on the struts... nine months oughts be enough time to have them dry! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Edit: Noticing that sway bar in there as well. That's going to be a sweet handling 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) |
MoveQik |
Jun 23 2011, 10:20 PM
Post
#23
|
What size wheels can I fit? Group: Members Posts: 4,654 Joined: 5-April 05 From: Scottsdale, AZ Member No.: 3,881 Region Association: Southwest Region |
You can also see the stickers Bilstein sent me when I ordered the wrench last fall. Well played. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
ArtechnikA |
Jun 24 2011, 06:41 AM
Post
#24
|
rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
Is there anything unique about this washer? I wouldn't call it unique, but IIRC, it's _really_ thin. Like 1mm, maybe less. I may have one somewhere but I doubt I have a pair. But my guess is all the usual suspects for used parts (HPH, EASY, PartsHeaven, ...) have buckets of them... |
FourBlades |
Jun 24 2011, 06:50 AM
Post
#25
|
From Wreck to Rockin Group: Members Posts: 2,056 Joined: 3-December 07 From: Brevard, FL Member No.: 8,414 Region Association: South East States |
I never knew about the wrench and never got one in the bilsteins I have bought. I am jealous! I also had my gland nut work itself loose after a year or so. John |
jk76.914 |
Jun 25 2011, 07:52 AM
Post
#26
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
I never knew about the wrench and never got one in the bilsteins I have bought. I am jealous! I also had my gland nut work itself loose after a year or so. John Stamped into the wrench is: "140 Newton-meters", which is about 103 ft-lbs. I'm not sure how you'd do that without the wrench. Based on your experience, I think I'll put several drops of green loctite (penetrating kind) around the circumference just be be sure. Just in time before they go on! Jim |
jk76.914 |
Jun 25 2011, 08:05 AM
Post
#27
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Is there anything unique about this washer? I wouldn't call it unique, but IIRC, it's _really_ thin. Like 1mm, maybe less. I may have one somewhere but I doubt I have a pair. But my guess is all the usual suspects for used parts (HPH, EASY, PartsHeaven, ...) have buckets of them... Thanks for the response. I finally measured the parts. The ID of the washer (OD of the ball joint shaft) is .630". The OD of the washer needs to be at least 1", to overhang the ridge on the rubber boot. And when I bench-assembled the joint into the strut, I used a feeler gauge and decided that .030" thick would do it. This thickness will slightly compress the rubber. .030" is just shy of 1mm (.0394"), exactly as you estimated. I ordered a bag of 10 stainless steel shims from McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com), catalog number 97022A499, for $9.04. The shims are .630" (+/- .005") ID x 1.00" OD x .031" thick. As shims, they'll have very smooth surfaces. I'll probably have them Tuesday. If anyone needs these for a front end rebuild, let me know. I have extras and I'll even cover the postage. Remember, they're only used on the pinch-bolt strut, which went away sometime in 1972 (I think). While I'm waiting, I'll clean some parts, do a fit check, and start disassembling the other side. Jim |
jk76.914 |
Jun 26 2011, 06:46 PM
Post
#28
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Just finished a fit check of most parts. Everything goes together as it should, with two exceptions- The hole in the tab (on the strut) where the hard and soft brake lines meet is too small for my '76 style brake hose. These were originally 914/6 struts, and didn't the early ones mate hose-to-hose, and then connect at the caliper with a banjo bolt? The tab is the same width as my '76, so I'll just ream the hole out to fit. The tab and hole are also in the right place to connect my '76 hard line from the M caliper. Easy.
The second fit problem is the dust shields. They rub on the rotor. First I though I goofed when I specified the part number when I posted my WTB here at the site, but looking through PET, this same part number covers both solid and vented rotors. It looks like I can easily reform (bend) the shields back out of the way, but I'd appreciate any comments. The alignment of the rotor in the caliper looks perfect. See photos. Once these are cleared up, I just need to await my ball joint washers, and it goes back together. Jim Those plated dust shields and restored calipers are the work of Eric Shea. Beautiful job, Eric!! |
jk76.914 |
Jun 26 2011, 06:47 PM
Post
#29
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
bump. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)
|
jk76.914 |
Jun 26 2011, 06:48 PM
Post
#30
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
(shrinking pics to make my posts more readable) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon_bump.gif)
|
jk76.914 |
Jun 26 2011, 06:51 PM
Post
#31
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Thinking about it, maybe the struts are different on cars with solid rotors? Could the 914/6 struts position the dust shield closer to the centerline of the rotor?
|
jk76.914 |
Jun 26 2011, 06:57 PM
Post
#32
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Oops. Forgot to mention. Those plated dust shields and restored calipers are the work of Eric Shea. Beautiful job, Eric!!
|
ArtechnikA |
Jun 26 2011, 07:56 PM
Post
#33
|
rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
Couldn't say for sure, since I've never done a 4->5 conversion.
I can say, tho, that i remove the dust covers from every car I have the hubs off. They buy you nothing unless you drive in snow. I do replace the 6mm fasteners tho, since I believe they may contribute to the strength. If you have a concours car, nevermind. |
Eric_Shea |
Jun 26 2011, 10:39 PM
Post
#34
|
PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,289 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Thanks Jim... Happy to help.
Just bend the shields back a bit. |
jk76.914 |
Jul 2 2011, 01:36 PM
Post
#35
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Got the driver's side strut out. The castle nut on the bottom of the ball joint broke free with a few whacks and the big drift (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .
I dropped some green Loctite on the threads of the big insert retainer nut on both new struts- you could see it getting sucked into the threads and disappearing. Also got the hole in the tab reamed out for the later style brake hose, and repainted. The new strut is in on the passenger side, and torqued. I was able to get 150 ft-lbs with the cheapo eBay ball joint socket. I'll have them tightened up to 180 (per manual) when I get it aligned as soon as it's on the road. The only glitch is the sway bar alignment. It rubs the strut when I allow the control arm to hang free. I noticed it's about 2.25" from the mounting plate to the square end on the driver's side (plenty of clearance) but over 3" on the passenger side. I found a thread ( http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=85891 ) where a member was advised to tap it over to center it, that it just relies on friction in the bushings to keep it in place, I guess. I'll try that tonight. You can see how close the lever (flush with the tip of the sway bar itself) comes to the strut. And this is with the control arm jacked up quite a bit. They interfere when it hangs free. |
ArtechnikA |
Jul 2 2011, 01:45 PM
Post
#36
|
rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
I got tired of the sliding and just put some 'appropriately sized' spacers between the lever arms and the pillar blocks. IIRC, I used 3/4" PVC pipe...
With the stock antiroll bar, you may find a different size tube fits better, but there's n magic to it. |
jk76.914 |
Jul 21 2011, 04:33 AM
Post
#37
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
Well I'm finally getting closer. I replaced the tie rod ends last weekend, and went around and torqued everything to spec. All that's left is bleeding the brakes and a crude setting of toe-in so I can get to the alignment shop. Hopefully, that'll be some morning next week.
Regarding brakes- The brakes seem to be bled, no more bubbles coming out, but they feel WAAAAY different. LOTS of pedal travel, getting almost to the floor. Is this what I should expect with the M calipers? The old brakes worked fine, and the 19mm MS only has about 12,000 miles since new. I didn't expect this much difference.... am I missing something? Procedure: I poured new DOT 3 fluid through the system to flush the lines first. Let it run out both brake lines (not connected yet) at both calipers simultaneously through tygon into bottles. Then did the same with my ATE DOT 4 Super Blue.... Then I connected the lines to the calipers to fill the restored caliper cylinders with the DOT 4 and bleed. I used a pressure bleeder first- limited it to 5 psi- and kept the reservoir half full at least from that point on. Finally, I had my wife press the pedal while I finished the job manually. My wife's comment about the pedal feel- "you have no brakes there." Not encouraging. I appreciate your thoughts. Thanks! Jim |
ArtechnikA |
Jul 21 2011, 04:39 AM
Post
#38
|
rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
Regarding brakes- The brakes seem to be bled, no more bubbles coming out, but they feel WAAAAY different. LOTS of pedal travel, getting almost to the floor. Is this what I should expect with the M calipers? The pedal should definitely stiffen up at the end of its travel. But if the calipers have been freshly rebuilt, it takes a while (maybe 100 mi) for all the pistons to reach their 'resting' position in the O-ring seals. Until then, they're getting pulled back too far into the caliper and you have to make up that distance all over again. But there is a big difference between lots of pedal before resistance and no resistance... |
jk76.914 |
Jul 21 2011, 05:05 AM
Post
#39
|
Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 809 Joined: 12-April 05 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 3,925 Region Association: North East States |
ArtechnikA- Thanks for the comments, that may be it or part of it...
I thought of another clue. When my wife pushed on the pedal, there wasn't much flow. On some pushes, there may have been none, or at least so little as to be undetectable. There're weren't bubbles on these pushes either. The most effective combination was 5-7 psi at the MS while she pressed the pedal.... Could the front pistion in the MS be stuck forward? |
ArtechnikA |
Jul 21 2011, 05:17 AM
Post
#40
|
rich herzog Group: Members Posts: 7,390 Joined: 4-April 03 From: Salted Roads, PA Member No.: 513 Region Association: None |
The most effective combination was 5-7 psi at the MS while she pressed the pedal.... Could the front pistion in the MS be stuck forward? I can't say it's impossible, but there is a nice spring in the MC to return the pistons. What's the history on this MC ? You should also note that the first thing that happens when the MC pistons move forward is that they shut off any connection to the reservoir - otherwise, pedal action would just pump fluid back up into the reservoir rather than the brake circuits. So nothing you're doing by pressurising the reservoir should have any effect. If it's an excess-travel thing you should be able to pump the pedal (couple of quick shots) and get pressure. If that doesn't help, you probably still have air in the lines. Let them sit, preferably overnight, while tapping on them with a small brass or plastic hammer, to help dislodge and coalesce bubbles. It's also possible that you managed to get air in the rear brake circuit - you bled the back too, yes ? I presume you've checked plunger rod free play. There must be -some- -- I think the book number is about 1mm. If there is none, or preload, you're interfering with that connection to the reservoir. If none of that helps, it may be time to pull the calipers back off the car and bench-bleed them... PITA but some calipers need it more than others. I never had to do it to 'M's but it has the advantage of removing unknowns. |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 31st October 2024 - 05:40 PM |
All rights reserved 914World.com © since 2002 |
914World.com is the fastest growing online 914 community! We have it all, classifieds, events, forums, vendors, parts, autocross, racing, technical articles, events calendar, newsletter, restoration, gallery, archives, history and more for your Porsche 914 ... |