Andyrews Progress Thread, 1/16/22 A Trip to The Red Barn - Lets fab a Firewall! Options

[dan10101]

Dynos

I personally like the 288/251 number myself. But that number will be surpassed in days to come. if it never does, it will still be a screamer..

[76-914]

Sounds great Andrew! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Andyrew]

Dynos

I personally like the 288/251 number myself. But that number will be surpassed in days to come. if it never does, it will still be a screamer..

It was pulling some timing so we backed the timing off a hair. However Look at the dyno curve. the 282/258 had significantly more power under the curve. It has a more aggressive boost curve programed into it on the low end which is why... But it just wouldnt push more boost in the end.

Its ok. I've been told the tune is safe for 25psi on the street as it sits. Also its a hair rich so I can safely add a gallon of E85 on it and bump the octane significantly.


Side note on all the dyno runs. We didnt see intake air temps over 30deg C for the entire run. Which means the air hitting the cylinders after pressurization was only 85F.... If that doesnt push you turbo guys to air to water intercoolers I dont know what will...

[jd74914]

Ended up making 8lbs of boost actual manifold pressure on the wastegate and that did 247hp/198tq at the wheels. This was about 50 more than I was expecting which was the highlight of the day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So whats next? I have a dual port internal wastegate actuator on order.
https://www.full-race.com/store/borg-warner...-port-actuator/

I'll put the small 7lb spring in it and then I can run the same 7psi but it will let me bump up the spring to what I want to do (30psi). I figured I could get into the 20's before the wastegate would let me go anymore but we were absolutely wrong.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Very nice!

Yeah, typically wastegate springs need to be about 1/2 desired boost in my experience. Easy change for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Side note on all the dyno runs. We didnt see intake air temps over 30deg C for the entire run. Which means the air hitting the cylinders after pressurization was only 85F.... If that doesnt push you turbo guys to air to water intercoolers I dont know what will...

Do you measure air temperatures at the compressor exit before the intercooler?

Comp Turbo is a bit sketchy since they don't publish compressor/turbine maps (claiming they are proprietary which is total BS), but I'm wondering if you're operating at a 75+% efficient point in the map with your current conservative pressure ratio and corresponding air flows. That might make your IC setup look a really good. It'll be interesting to see when you go to higher pressures.

[Andyrew]

Ended up making 8lbs of boost actual manifold pressure on the wastegate and that did 247hp/198tq at the wheels. This was about 50 more than I was expecting which was the highlight of the day (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So whats next? I have a dual port internal wastegate actuator on order.
https://www.full-race.com/store/borg-warner...-port-actuator/

I'll put the small 7lb spring in it and then I can run the same 7psi but it will let me bump up the spring to what I want to do (30psi). I figured I could get into the 20's before the wastegate would let me go anymore but we were absolutely wrong.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Very nice!

Yeah, typically wastegate springs need to be about 1/2 desired boost in my experience. Easy change for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Side note on all the dyno runs. We didnt see intake air temps over 30deg C for the entire run. Which means the air hitting the cylinders after pressurization was only 85F.... If that doesnt push you turbo guys to air to water intercoolers I dont know what will...

Do you measure air temperatures at the compressor exit before the intercooler?

Comp Turbo is a bit sketchy since they don't publish compressor/turbine maps (claiming they are proprietary which is total BS), but I'm wondering if you're operating at a 75+% efficient point in the map with your current conservative pressure ratio and corresponding air flows. That might make your IC setup look a really good. It'll be interesting to see when you go to higher pressures.

IAT's were measured in the manifold.

[jd74914]

Sorry, should have been clearer, I meant did you measure before the intercooler too?

[Andyrew]

No I did not. Ambient was about 70

[Andyrew]

Tried the metal slave cyl. The quality on the unit looks great. But the damn bleed screw is metal on metal.... What idiot thought that would work? Won't hold pressure, bleed screw was cast so I cleaned up the castings and still no go. Damn thing needs a rubber seal. I might experiment with one sometime later but I have a spare plastic slave.

First things first was to try and get fluid to pull through the line... No luck. I'm going to need someone else to help me with this as this fkin thing is not working. I messaged a friend so hopefully tomorrow or Friday I'll have the clutch properly bled.


I can hear some air by the master so who knows.... the whole thing is not well layed out for a good bleeding. Really needs a power bleeder and not s vacuum bleeder.

If this doesn't work I suspect pressure plate needs alignment. If that doesn't work, new clutch/pp. If that doesn't work. Add more lever action to pedal assembly. If that doesn't work....... Pay someone smarter?

Ugh.

[914 Ranch]

Yeah, I hate that last step too.

[Cairo94507]

Andrew - Great meeting you at Chris' shop last weekend. I hope to see your car one of these times. It sounds amazing. Cheers, Michael

[tygaboy]

@Andyrew - Let's pick a date that works to have you come over and do more fab work.
Also, let me know if you want me to send the panel you left here or if you're OK waiting til you're here next.
Talk soon!
Chris

[76-914]

I can hear some air by the master so who knows.... the whole thing is not well layed out for a good bleeding. Really needs a power bleeder and not s vacuum bleeder.

Ugh.

My reservoir is the highest point I'm my system. The lowest is where it exits the tunnel via the clutch tube. From there it is strapped up against the engine/trans, then level about 1' then up to the slave. In order to bleed the system I remove the strap at the engine/trans creating a temporary "new" low spot. Next I break the flare nut loose at the slave cylinder and wait to let gravity do it's job. The next morning I top off the reservoir then pump clutch and bleed the remainder of the air and clamp. Finally the tube is strapped back to the engine/trans.
I didn't plan or foresee this method. I just got lucky. There aren't any "peaks and valleys" in the line. It flows downhill from reservoir to MC to the low spot I "create" by removing a strap. And that low point is only 2' from and directly below the SC.
I'd say stay after it but I don't believe you need any encouragement at this point. See you at WCR.

[dan10101]

Tried the metal slave cyl. The quality on the unit looks great. But the damn bleed screw is metal on metal.... What idiot thought that would work? Won't hold pressure, bleed screw was cast so I cleaned up the castings and still no go. Damn thing needs a rubber seal. I might experiment with one sometime later but I have a spare plastic slave.

First things first was to try and get fluid to pull through the line... No luck. I'm going to need someone else to help me with this as this fkin thing is not working. I messaged a friend so hopefully tomorrow or Friday I'll have the clutch properly bled.
...

Send me a pict of your slave, I have a spare, it's a pull type.

I'll bring my Mityvac pressure bleeder down JIC. I just need to see your reservoir cap.

[Andyrew]

Tried the metal slave cyl. The quality on the unit looks great. But the damn bleed screw is metal on metal.... What idiot thought that would work? Won't hold pressure, bleed screw was cast so I cleaned up the castings and still no go. Damn thing needs a rubber seal. I might experiment with one sometime later but I have a spare plastic slave.

First things first was to try and get fluid to pull through the line... No luck. I'm going to need someone else to help me with this as this fkin thing is not working. I messaged a friend so hopefully tomorrow or Friday I'll have the clutch properly bled.
...

Send me a pict of your slave, I have a spare, it's a pull type.

I'll bring my Mityvac pressure bleeder down JIC. I just need to see your reservoir cap.

Its tiny. Think motorcycle. Like 1.5" I was thinking I would get a spare cap, drill a hole in it and put a nipple on it so I can pressurize it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-Audi-Porsche-B...7M/152549321531

[Andyrew]

I can hear some air by the master so who knows.... the whole thing is not well layed out for a good bleeding. Really needs a power bleeder and not s vacuum bleeder.

Ugh.

My reservoir is the highest point I'm my system. The lowest is where it exits the tunnel via the clutch tube. From there it is strapped up against the engine/trans, then level about 1' then up to the slave. In order to bleed the system I remove the strap at the engine/trans creating a temporary "new" low spot. Next I break the flare nut loose at the slave cylinder and wait to let gravity do it's job. The next morning I top off the reservoir then pump clutch and bleed the remainder of the air and clamp. Finally the tube is strapped back to the engine/trans.
I didn't plan or foresee this method. I just got lucky. There aren't any "peaks and valleys" in the line. It flows downhill from reservoir to MC to the low spot I "create" by removing a strap. And that low point is only 2' from and directly below the SC.
I'd say stay after it but I don't believe you need any encouragement at this point. See you at WCR.

I've got a decent amount of loops in the line and I tried that last night essentially. We will see what actually happened.

I really think pressure is required from the reservoir side.

[Andyrew]

Andrew - Great meeting you at Chris' shop last weekend. I hope to see your car one of these times. It sounds amazing. Cheers, Michael

You to Michael! It was fun chatting with you and your brother (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Andyrew]

@Andyrew - Let's pick a date that works to have you come over and do more fab work.
Also, let me know if you want me to send the panel you left here or if you're OK waiting til you're here next.
Talk soon!
Chris

Agreed. I've been debating back and forth about what makes sense for me, to try and make another day up there or to just push forward myself here and have you ship it... I need another bend in it which is why it was on the brake, but I was trying to figure out the measurement and how to use your machine.


It really makes a lot of sense for me to come up there again with the car. I could get the center console done as well as the lower and possibly the upper dash pretty much in a day. (You know my quality standards so I would just bust through those things now that im familiar with many of your tools a bit more)

[Andyrew]

Ok some progress.


Wastegate came in. I took out a spring so it's 7psi now. It's a bit bigger so fitting it will be difficult. We'll have to work on that after WCR. Too bad, I was hoping to pump it up to 400whp when my dad came down so we could have some nice roll racing.

Another note. My tuner said he's going to tune another ECU of mine, I bought a tuner cable for dirt and I'll be able to tune like he does. He's a nice guy and has shown me a bunch. He'll be down tomorrow to set me up. We'll work on it a bit and do some remote tuning and editing. I told him I want an E85 file and I'll just get set up with whatever files I want and I can swap them whenever at a gas station or swap ecu's if something happens. Anyways I'm pretty excited about that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I removed the brake master and got the lines really flat. I removed the slave and left the line open to the vacuum. It still didn't pull anything so I suspect there was just to much air with me fiddling with it. I decided to cycle the master a bit and finally was getting somewhere. I kept cycling it and it seemed to just pull fluid from the reservor and push it out the line. I did this till the line seemed clear. Then connected the slave and installed it.

Side note I extended the rod for the slave a bit more than I had previously. Which required me to weld on an extension instead of just using some tiny nuts in the end caps. Added another 1/4". This means that I should have more total travel with my pressure plate. If it's too much and I get slipping I'll cut it down a hair.

Back to bleeding. Im going to do some more hand bleeding and then I'll be getting a friend, installing the master and trying it some more.

I can't get any more out of the pedal unless I redesign it and then it would only be an extra 1/8* of travel. So I don't think that's enough to worry about.

If this doesn't work then it's a new clutch/pressure plate. I have a couple available.


Back to actual progress... I started working on the center console. Biggest problem is I have all the wiring in the car and the new seats all mounted. So I needed to be very careful when handling the steel and any welding. But I got the center cage done. Dimensions based on my steel pieces. I also trimmed them a bit to fit, but more trimming will be necessary when I add carpet and such.. I'll have to redesign the top pieces or at least the back and I'm still figuring out the seam between the two as I'm debating on black sides and brown accent top. Still up in the air.





PS Chris I was trying to get the girls to go to 6 flags one of these days and I would just drop them off but that's looking like a no...

[tygaboy]

Andrew - On planning some more time back at my shop, just give me a bit of a heads up and I can make most any date/time work.
Chris

[Andyrew]

More progress on the center console... My friend to help me bleed the clutch and my tuner we're a no show. Probably do family things tomorrow and Monday but we'll see. I really need to get the clutch dialed in by Tuesday or know if I need a replacement.


Finished the mounting of the center console base then trimmed the sides to fit.


Then I worked on the top portion and got it squared away and fitting decent.

This was most of my day. Not a lot but the rear section is done as far as the sheet metal is concerned. I will probably drive it to WCR this way.



Frony/middle section with the shifter is difficult due to the curve in the top/base. After a couple tries I got the piece bent that I have and it looks good. I did the lower easy mounts but need to work on the upper mounts. Then I'll need the other side from Chris as well as to do the top portion.

Excited on the progress (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)