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> Wiper switch differences, trying to add an elec. washer switch
peteyd
post Feb 6 2012, 10:06 PM
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I am trying to figure out what I have here. I noticed that there are two different wiper switches available. 70-72 and 73-76.


This is the one that is in the best condition.
Notice that it only has four pins on the left side.
Attached Image


I have already attached a switch that I got from davep, which will trigger my electric washer pump that I plan to install.
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This is the second one that I have. Being in worse condition out of the two.
It has five pins on the left side. The extra one being a brown, which is ground correct?
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The switch is also different in that the plunger that would activate the washer fluid has an electrical contact

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I am running a wiring harness from a 72 car. Which switch do I need to use? Am i missing pieces from the first switch maybe?

Im stumped here...

Pete
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SirAndy
post Feb 6 2012, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE(peteyd @ Feb 6 2012, 08:06 PM) *
I am running a wiring harness from a 72 car. Which switch do I need to use? Am i missing pieces from the first switch maybe?

I'm pretty sure the wires you need weren't part of the main harness and switch until '73/'74.

So, even if you used the later switch portion, your harness would still be missing the correct wires.

It's been a while, so a may be wrong about this ...
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jim_hoyland
post Feb 7 2012, 07:49 AM
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See: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...l=wiper*++wire*


This has some helpful info and diagrams. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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peteyd
post Feb 7 2012, 09:25 AM
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QUOTE(jim_hoyland @ Feb 7 2012, 05:49 AM) *


This is somewhat helpful, but it still does not distinguish which is the early and late wiper switch. I am assuming now that the one without the extra pin is the earlier one.

Can someone still confirm this?
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Valy
post Feb 7 2012, 12:19 PM
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I've done a lot of research on this topic. Here is what I know:

Switches:
1. The 4 wire switch does only support low and high speed. The water is activated through a valve. Wipers will not work when the water valve is activated. The connector has 5 terminals but one is not populated.
2. The 5 wire switch adds the timed delay relay option and wipers on when water valve is open. Note that you can't run an electric water pump with this switch. It just triggers the delay relay to operate the wipers when the valve opens.
3. There is a 6 wire switch used in Super Beetle that has an additional wire for the electric pump. This wire doesn't go to the connector and has it's own spade connector that should be routed to the pump (see picture - note that this switch has both the valve and the pump wire so you can use electric or pneumatic washer system)
4. There is an old 924 switch that has the same functionality as (3) but has a larger connector with 7 terminals. It's an extension of the 914 connector with 2 additional terminals, one of them empty. The pump wire is in the extension. (see diagram below)

5. The signal switch has a tab that prevents the wiper switch to go into the intermittent position. That tab must be removed when an extended switch is used.

Harness:
The 914 harness had the option for intermittent wipers. In some models, everything is in place and an intermittent wiper is installed in the front trunk. If that relay is not there, the wire from the switch (5th terminal) is probably still in place but it's wrapped in the harness to prevent a short.
You can add the relay but you'll have to cut the return power from the wiper motor and plug the relay there, together with the said wire and power and ground.

My opinion, and this is what I've done to my car as well, is that with all the trouble you go through to add the wiper relay, it's better to add a programmable relay that will permit you to control the wiper interval. I use a VW relay that allows that just by switching the wipers on-off-on once to program the interval. The relay wiring is a bit different but you need to add that relay anyway.

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SirAndy
post Feb 7 2012, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE(Valy @ Feb 7 2012, 10:19 AM) *


2. The 5 wire switch adds the timed delay relay option and wipers on when water valve is open. Note that you can't run an electric water pump with this switch. It just triggers the delay relay to operate the wipers when the valve opens.


Yes you can!

http://www.914world.com/specs/tech_el_washer.php

I briefly mention it in the article above.

You just need to be a bit creative with the wiring ...
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Valy
post Feb 7 2012, 01:14 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Feb 7 2012, 10:29 AM) *

QUOTE(Valy @ Feb 7 2012, 10:19 AM) *


2. The 5 wire switch adds the timed delay relay option and wipers on when water valve is open. Note that you can't run an electric water pump with this switch. It just triggers the delay relay to operate the wipers when the valve opens.


Yes you can!

http://www.914world.com/specs/tech_el_washer.php

I briefly mention it in the article above.

You just need to be a bit creative with the wiring ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)


The 914 switch is normally-closed and grounds when idle. It will brake that ground when you pull the lever.
Yes you can get "creative" with the wiring and can also modify the switch but it won't work in stock configuration.

If you count on the relay to power the pump when you pull the lever that you may easily burn that relay.

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SirAndy
post Feb 7 2012, 02:16 PM
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QUOTE(Valy @ Feb 7 2012, 11:14 AM) *
If you count on the relay to power the pump when you pull the lever that you may easily burn that relay.

No, what i meant is that you can use the same wire as the trigger for a second relay for running the pump.

I guess my wording in the article is not very clear on that, but there shouldn't be any problem with triggering two relays using the same wire.

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peteyd
post Feb 7 2012, 02:36 PM
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Great!

Thank you Valy for all that info. I now have some solid info to go forward with!

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Cap'n Krusty
post Feb 7 2012, 02:56 PM
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A switch from a '77 924, Rabbit, or Scirocco works. It's NLA, though.

The Cap'n
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peteyd
post Feb 7 2012, 05:35 PM
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Feb 7 2012, 12:56 PM) *

A switch from a '77 924, Rabbit, or Scirocco works. It's NLA, though.

The Cap'n



Also good to know.

Thanks
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Valy
post Feb 7 2012, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Feb 7 2012, 12:56 PM) *

A switch from a '77 924, Rabbit, or Scirocco works. It's NLA, though.

The Cap'n


There are reproductions available. Not great but good enough.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?Pr...C-111-953-519-G


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Valy
post Feb 7 2012, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE(SirAndy @ Feb 7 2012, 12:16 PM) *

QUOTE(Valy @ Feb 7 2012, 11:14 AM) *
If you count on the relay to power the pump when you pull the lever that you may easily burn that relay.

No, what i meant is that you can use the same wire as the trigger for a second relay for running the pump.

I guess my wording in the article is not very clear on that, but there shouldn't be any problem with triggering two relays using the same wire.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Yes a relay will work. The problem was to make it work without modifying the harness.
BTW, another solution would be to add just a relay for the water and activate the wipers during that time, without the intermittent relay. I have a circuit for that as well.

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Valy
post Feb 7 2012, 06:16 PM
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Here is the best solution in my opinion, using the new VW programmable relay.
If you add a delay relay to your wipers, this is the same amount of work and you get all the benefits of modern electronics with variable delay without changing the appearance.

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peteyd
post Feb 7 2012, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE(Valy @ Feb 7 2012, 04:16 PM) *

Here is the best solution in my opinion, using the new VW programmable relay.
If you add a delay relay to your wipers, this is the same amount of work and you get all the benefits of modern electronics with variable delay without changing the appearance.




Do you have a link for one of those VW relays?

or is it just something like this..

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Valy
post Feb 7 2012, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE(peteyd @ Feb 7 2012, 05:32 PM) *

QUOTE(Valy @ Feb 7 2012, 04:16 PM) *

Here is the best solution in my opinion, using the new VW programmable relay.
If you add a delay relay to your wipers, this is the same amount of work and you get all the benefits of modern electronics with variable delay without changing the appearance.




Do you have a link for one of those VW relays?

or is it just something like this..


Yep, that's the one.
Just make sure it has [99.] printed on it. There is a [19] one that is not programmable.

I think I still have one spare.
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Eric_Shea
post Feb 28 2012, 01:01 PM
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Update.

Many Thanks to Valy for the countless e-mails and assistance.

I have my front trunk completely wired now.

IMPORTANT: I used the 924 7-pin but, it does not fit in a 914 steering column. The 914 column is only wide enough to support the 6-pin. I was able to use the plastic plug pieces from my 914 switch and make it work. Now I have the intermittent wiper relay and a lead off the switch to activate the pump.

Just a heads up to anyone thinking of using the 924 switch.
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Krieger
post Feb 28 2012, 10:37 PM
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[/quote]

There are reproductions available. Not great but good enough.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?Pr...C-111-953-519-G
[/quote]

Dang! I bought part # 111-953-519 H based on someones post here a long time ago. Every time I turn it on a fuse burns out. Good thing I really don't drive in the rain. Any ideas as to the difference between the G and the H models? Is there a way to tweak mine? The steering/lock assembly on my car is a 74 model. Car is a 75.
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Valy
post Feb 28 2012, 11:01 PM
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[quote name='Krieger' date='Feb 28 2012, 08:37 PM' post='1636033']
[/quote]

There are reproductions available. Not great but good enough.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?Pr...C-111-953-519-G
[/quote]

Dang! I bought part # 111-953-519 H based on someones post here a long time ago. Every time I turn it on a fuse burns out. Good thing I really don't drive in the rain. Any ideas as to the difference between the G and the H models? Is there a way to tweak mine? The steering/lock assembly on my car is a 74 model. Car is a 75.
[/quote]
I have exactly that switch in my 74 and it works fine.
I can try to help but you need to provide more details.
Which fuse Burns?
What exactly you turn on?
What's connected to the switch?
Have you done any modification? Pictures help very much.
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Bartlett 914
post Feb 29 2012, 08:35 AM
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I did a little research on this as well. If you want intermittent wipers and use the signal to trigger a relay for the washer pump, you will have a problem. The load on from the washer pump relay will not allow the intermittent wiper to operate properly. My solution was to add a high impedance relay driver circuit. It is very simple and easy to make. Intermittent wipers and washer pump without an extra switch.
Wiper discussion
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