California Legality of 914 engine swap Options

[wiredwrx]

Hello All,

I am looking for people, specifically in California, who have gone through the process of registering, insuring, and smog testing (If it is needed) a 914 with an engine swap.

I recently read about the change to law that says post 1975 cars, no matter how old are not smog exempt, so I plan on getting a pre 1975, or whatever year I need to get, to avoid that. But, what about registering the car. Do I have to see the state ref before I can get the registration. Do I even need to go to the State ref to get signed off on. DO I have to notify the DMV of the engine swap (I have a friend doing an engine swap, and his research has determined that the DMV must be notified of the engine swap)

I am looking for any information people have.

Thanx
Michael

[scruz914]

I had an issue with an engine swap in a VW Bus several years ago while Smog II was in effect. Back then no way could you get away without having the engine meet smog requirements. My Bus was classified as a "gross polluter" and I could not register it. Smog II has since been replealed and all I had to do was go to the DMV and re-register it. No inspection, questions, nada. I don't think anything has changed that would make what I did any different, as long as the car is pre '75 (or is it pre '76?).

-Jeff

[Mueller]

"legally", one is supposed to only replace the motor with the same year or newer engine and keep everything smog related to the donor motor vehicle (meaning swapping in a brand new '04 motor would be a major PITA due to the OBD II computer stuff and the pressurized gas tank)...once the swap is done, you get the car signed off at a referee station...

car engines only in car, truck motors are different

I only know of one person to do this, and there are a lot of swaps out there.....give the state some time, I'm sure they will be cracking down on us "converters" as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

ideally, you want to get a car that you can easily register right now, avoid anything that'll require special paperwork (like a car that has been abandoned or no paperwork at all)

[Mueller]

anyone know where to find the correct information "in print" and not on the internet??

[Dominic]

Why the F@%K would you tell anything like this to the DMV ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
If it runs good and passes smog (if it's required) then who cares? The smog monkeys will never know what's in your engine as long as they see the timing where it should be and the required equipment/hoses/ cat pipe, ect... on their visual inspection. Never volunteer any information like that unless of course it's obvious like a V-8 in a 914 instead of the 1.7L that is on the title.
Good Luck!

[Mueller]

Why the F@%K would you tell anything like this to the DMV ?

it could be a costly mistake that could bite one in the ass later on down the road....I've heard rumors of roadside smog testing, but so far it's only been a rumor (AFAIK)

[eeyore]

Never volunteer information. Get a '75 or earlier that runs. It is the seller's responsibility to get the thing smogged.

10 years ago there was some sort of pilot program for roadside testing. Occasionally I'd see a white van on the side of a freeway on-ramp with some little gizmo set up at tailpipe height. I only saw it a dozen times. If I see it again, I'll have an accidental door-latch failure.

[bob91403]

A lot of times, when the DMV inspects a vehicle, they have no friggin' idea what they're looking at. I doubt they'd know a six when they saw it, or that they'd have the brains to count the plug wires. They do want to see the engines serial number for the record. If the car says it's a four, and you put in a bigger four, no problem. Technically putting carbs on a four is illegal.(Your not allowed to modify the fuel or smog system from OEM.) If it says CHEVROLET on the valve cover, that might be trouble. Don't volunteer any information, they'll never know. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slap.gif)

[TimT]

It is the seller's responsibility to get the thing smogged.

Really? thats wierd, sell a car "as is"

if the car has passed it yearly smog then all should be good? or is this just some wierd Cali law? If you buy the a car within that period, the inspection is still good? or am I missing something?


And cant you sell a car in Cali "As is"? state that on you bill of sale..

[Mueller]

legally it is the sellers resp. to get the car smogged, even with a "sold as is", one can take the seller to court...

[bob91403]

If the car is '76 or later, it must pass smog to be registered. You're not allowed to sell your headache to someone else. If it won't pass, you can't sell it, except as salvage.

[Mueller]

another "great" California thing...even by filling out a "release of liability" form, you are not off the hook until the new owner registers the car...which means that you could be held liable if the new owner does something "stupid" between the time you sold the car and the time he registers it (if he ever does)

[Jake Raby]

The only way to really beat the system is to move to another state- Thats why I didn't stay in Cali....

Nice weather, but man do you have to pay the price to get it!

[andys]

I bought a '75 car, and registered it through the Auto Club. No hassles at all. They only needed to witness the car for the Vin. That's it. '75 is smog exempt.

Andy

[Mueller]

'75 is smog exempt.

....yes, that is correct, however, if you put a different engine in it, it might not be "smog" legal anymore depending on the engine one puts in....a lot of people are going to be screwed if the laws change (again)

[scruz914]

I think this applies to engine swaps in our cars:

4161. (a) Whenever a motor vehicle engine or motor is installed, except temporarily, in a motor vehicle which is identified on the ownership and registration certificates by motor or engine number or by both the motor and frame numbers and subject to registration under this code, the owner of the motor vehicle shall, within 10 days thereafter, give notice to the department upon a form furnished by it containing a description of the motor vehicle engine or motor installed, including any identifying number thereon and the date of the installation. The owner of the motor vehicle shall also submit to the department with the notice the certificate of ownership and registration card covering the motor vehicle in which the motor vehicle engine or motor is installed and evidence of ownership covering the new or used motor vehicle engine or motor installed and such other documents as may be required by the department.

We don't register our cars using the engine number so you can put anything you want in it. DMV does not care. All rules will continue to apply to the year of your car.

Here is the DMV link:

CA DMV 4161

-Jeff

[Cap'n Krusty]

In CA, the smog goes with the year of the car or engine, which ever is newer. If your car doesn't need a smog, you're still supposed to have and maintain the emissions equipment, but are not required to have it tested, even on transfer. If you bring in a car from out of state, DMV needs to see the car to verify the VIN, but they don't do ANYTHING with the emissions equipment. If you do a "revived junk", a car from a wreck or a boneyard, you have to get a brake and light inspection cert, as well as a smog test if it's a 1976 or newer. Smog tests in CA may be either static or on a dyno, depending on where you register the car, and both include what is supposed to be a detailed check of the presence and function of ALL required emissions related equipment. If you do an engine swap on a newer car, the engine must meet the specs of the year it was made and be as new or newer than the car. So, if you install an engine that obviously didn't come in the car, it has to meet the complete emissions equipment specs of the year of manufacture of the engine. That includes evaporative emissions stuff, as well as the stuff designed into the engine. If you put an 80 928 engine in a '76 914, you'll need the evap stuff, all the EFI, the correct thermostat, the recirculating fuel system, and a catalytic converter feeding into a single exhaust pipe. I did a 2000 Jetta motor into a 1991 Vanagon, and it got really interesting with the BAR, the EPA, and the DMV didn't care. FWIW, Colorado was the same way, 'cause the owner tried to get tags there, too.

Now. The release of liability issue. If you send it in, it's SUPPOSED to relieve you of legal liability. However, in it's other function as an arm of the franchise tax board, the DMV sometimes runs into a tough situation. It's a smart move on your part to use the DMV bill of sale, and to record the buyers name, address, and driver's license number on the forms, in the spaces indicated. Send in the release, KEEP a SIGNED copy of the bill of sale in case they hassle you for tax money. How hard is that? The Cap'n

[bob91403]

I think this applies to engine swaps in our cars:

4161.    (a) Whenever a motor vehicle engine or motor is installed, except temporarily, in a motor vehicle which is identified on the ownership and registration certificates by motor or engine number or by both the motor and frame numbers and subject to registration under this code, the owner of the motor vehicle shall, within 10 days thereafter, give notice to the department upon a form furnished by it containing a description of the motor vehicle engine or motor installed, including any identifying number thereon and the date of the installation. The owner of the motor vehicle shall also submit to the department with the notice the certificate of ownership and registration card covering the motor vehicle in which the motor vehicle engine or motor is installed and evidence of ownership covering the new or used motor vehicle engine or motor installed and such other documents as may be required by the department.

We don't register our cars using the engine number so you can put anything you want in it.  DMV does not care.  All rules will continue to apply to the year of your car.

Here is the DMV link:

CA DMV 4161

-Jeff

Yes, but if the car has been off the DMVs books for a while, the new title requires the engine number.

[scruz914]

In CA, the smog goes with the year of the car or engine, which ever is newer.

So, if you install an engine that obviously didn't come in the car, it has to meet the complete emissions equipment specs of the year of manufacture of the engine. That includes evaporative emissions stuff, as well as the stuff designed into the engine. If you put an 80 928 engine in a '76 914, you'll need the evap stuff, all the EFI, the correct thermostat, the recirculating fuel system, and a catalytic converter feeding into a single exhaust pipe. I did a 2000 Jetta motor into a 1991 Vanagon, and it got really interesting with the BAR, the EPA, and the DMV didn't care.

I believe that you can put any engine you want to in a '75 or older car and it only has to be to the standards for the year of the car. I don't think (subjective criteria) that the ARB or EPA cares about cars older than 30 years.

Emission Control Configuration
Mixing and matching emission control system components could cause problems and is generally not allowed. Engine and emission control systems must be in an engine-chassis configuration certified by the California Air Resources Board (ARB) or U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The engine must meet or exceed the requirements for the year and class of vehicle in which it is installed.

You problem with the Jetta was that the 2000 engine only had to meet '91 standards but it could not have any of its smog controls altered since it was going into a smog controlled car. i.e.:

Certification Standards
Make sure the engine and emission control configuration on exhaust - controlled vehicles are certified to the year of the vehicle or newer, and to the same or a more stringent new vehicle certification standard.

or

Computer Controls
If a computer-controlled engine is installed in a non-computerized vehicle, the "CHECK ENGINE" light, the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) diagnostic link, and all sensors, switches, and wiring harnesses needed to make the system fully functional must also be installed.

Link:
CA DMV Engine Change Guidelines

-Jeff

[scruz914]

Yes, but if the car has been off the DMVs books for a while, the new title requires the engine number.

Good point. I have not had to deal with that.

-Jeff