My 3.3L Subie Conversion Thread, Got me some 914rubber stuff Options

[Chris H.]

Got the hoses in. It runs VERY cool now. They don't look too much different than the old ones so there's not much to see. I'll have a new video update this weekend once it stops raining.

More lessons learned:

1. When you make changes to correct small problems, do them ONE at a time. I installed the Speed Sensor AND re-did my vacuum hoses under the manifold that control the iris valve. When I did that I followed a set of instructions that incorrectly showed the 1-way valve for the vacuum canister that connects to the iris valve installed backwards. It's amazing how something the size of a pen cap could jack things up so much.



All the popping, weak acceleration, etc is gone. I forgot how FAST the thing was initially. Forget those 4 cylinder N/A comments. Can't go backwards from this!

2. Don't forget what you've learned. After years with L-Jet, I can't believe I didn't clamp every hose. What an improvement! (the unclamped ones do not have any vacuum and are not connected to the intake air flow so no worries)



3. Bob's system for cooling lines setup is great. Make sure your return line is at the highest point and keep the hose setup simple. I have one continuous hose going to the radiator, one coming back. No extra clamped elbows, nothing. I had ZERO air pockets. The pressurized expansion tank has a screw on cap with a 5/8 lower line that goes to the water pump and a smaller upper line that comes off of the upper engine coolant tube (high point of system).

Pics:









Definitely a lot fatter hoses but they fit fine. Seeing temps only to 180 and when the fans come on they drop immediately. Ignore the arrows in the last pic. Those are for Kent.


4. You may recall that I removed some of the hoses on my engine since I flipped the intake. One thing I realized was that I inadvertently deleted most of the "warm up" loop that the coolant circulates within before the car warms up. I decided to take the thermostat out for that reason. It actually warms up just as quickly as before. Just made a small aluminum circle of the same diameter and inserted it into the rubber seal. Not a drop.

Video tomorrow if the deluge stops!

[914forme]

Looking good.

My big question is did the speed hut sensor have any ill effects from the shorting procedure. Since your have listed temperatures, I presume not. Just want verification before I do the same thing.

Now get out and enjoy the car, maybe bring it to Okteenerfest?

[76-914]

Looks great Chris. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) And yes, the EZ's also have the iris valve. It has the smallest spring that I have ever seen inside. Like a human hair. Do not open to inspect. I repeat, do not open to inspect. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) The plastic bodies are very fragile as well and I recommend using a razor to open the hose when removing the old hose. They are unobtanium from Subaru. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Now go do what Stephen said. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Chris H.]

No it works fine and it's much less..."roller-coaster-y" I guess is the word. The needle moves much more slowly like the stock gauge. Needs to be connected TO the engine if possible like the stock sensor to keep it from swinging erratically which is pretty alarming. I think where I had it before may have been prime air pocket space, so I put the return line there. The thing bled itself in 2 starts. 3 gallons!!!

The instructions say you can trim that sensor no problem but since your engine is apart you can eyeball it and see if you need to. I couldn't quite tell. You can take the pipe out of the spare engine I f you can't get an eyeball on it easily. Be CAREFUL with the sensor. Don't use a socket on it. And be careful with the threads for the crossover pipe in the engine, at least on the good engine. They are bitchy.

[Chris H.]

Ha! Yeah Kent we may be talking about two different things but that sounds crazy! Every model has something you can't find new any more like the EG33 Cam sensor #1. Used ones aren't as expensive as I had hoped (was wanting some $$$ for the guys who gave me extras for Octeenerfest!, maybe I'll ebay a couple) but a NEW ONE is between $250 and $400.

In the pic above with the spare change the black piece is just a 1 way check valve, so when it was supposed to be building pressure it was RELEASING it. That would pretty much ruin your timing, let a bunch of unmetered air in, never get the iris system moving, etc. The iris valve, or iris system in the SVX is a big dome like thing that rotates underneath the intake at different RPMs to redirect air flow inside the manifold (see below). I think the EZ30R might have it too.



I don't THINK yours has this monstrosity but NO DOUBT you have something called the iris valve in your car that probably has something to do with air metering. They do that to confuse us (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

[76-914]

Ha! Yeah Kent we may be talking about two different things but that sounds crazy! Every model has something you can't find new any more like the EG33 Cam sensor #1. Used ones aren't as expensive as I had hoped (was wanting some $$$ for the guys who gave me extras for Octeenerfest!, maybe I'll ebay a couple) but a NEW ONE is between $250 and $400.

In the pic above with the spare change the black piece is just a 1 way check valve, so when it was supposed to be building pressure it was RELEASING it. That would pretty much ruin your timing, let a bunch of unmetered air in, never get the iris system moving, etc. The iris valve, or iris system in the SVX is a big dome like thing that rotates underneath the intake at different RPMs to redirect air flow inside the manifold (see below). I think the EZ30R might have it too.



I don't THINK yours has this monstrosity but NO DOUBT you have something called the iris valve in your car that probably has something to do with air metering. They do that to confuse us (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

Your correct. It has that small check valve, also. Same rules; leave it alone. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[motoTrooper]

Really nice work there AGAIN. I was wondering about the size increase of the hoses. Jeebus buddy, you've got boa constrictors under yer car! I'm all for it, gonna copy you like Xerox. I also may be interested in the ECU chip buy pool if that's still going on. Maybe one of those sensors too...

[ThePaintedMan]

Chris - (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)


Thank you for trudging the road before I had to. I am utterly impressed with everything you've done. I wish I was at a different stage in life so I could keep up better/contribute more. But I live vicariously through ye. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I was considering going up to 1.5 inch hose for the inlet, but seeing how much of a PITA it is with the 1.25 hose, I guess that's as far as I'll go. Again, my car will see a lot more extended periods with high RPM, but your data has been pretty promising to me thus far.

For others who are reading, the primary issue with the EG33 is that the water pump is too good. At high RPMs, at least in the SVX, the pump is pushing enough water that there isn't enough volume coming back in behind the impeller to keep up. This causes cavitation, thus steam and a hot spot in the motor. Not good. Several SVX sites have threads dealing with this issue which essentially recommend resizing the inlet hose to 1.5+ inches and also resizing the thermostat housing and relocating the thermostat to the outlet side. I think Chris' 1.25 hose seems to work well because of the added length of the hose coming into the inlet (compared to the very short hose from the radiator on the SVX, providing enough volume for those high RPM moments and effectively eliminating those cavitation events experienced by others.

[Chris H.]

Mototrooper - you can test the sensors with an ohm meter. should read 2600. As long as yours do they are fine. Just put one needle on each prong. All three (2 crank, one cam) work the exact same way. They are just simple magnetic sensors. You can substitute one for the other and they will fit/work. The angle of the tops just make clipping to the wiring harness a little different. You CAN use other subaru sensors of the same year but they only measure 1900 ohms. People do it all the time but I don't like the idea that they are that far off. I'd definitely be in for a chip group buy if he came down enough on the price. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

George, the way you did your intake flip REALLY helped me. I might not have chanced it without your posts. Would have waited until "next time" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ) When you're 100% ready to go PM me and I can give you a few more thoughts/ideas that you can use or not use. On the hoses, the 1.25 are really good enough in my opinion. I don't see an extra .25 inch doing much for you given the added hose length as you said. The 1.25 are a little bit of a pain to stretch onto the engine inlet/outlet but once you get them on there they will NOT come off accidentally I can tell you that. I soaked the ends in hot water then put a little dish soap on the metal piece. You could remove the thermostat/extra hoses on the engine like I did. I have a sheet of aluminum I can cut you a blank out of if you want. Just a large washer to put the rubber seal in so the water pump doesn't leak. The diameter is 2.2" so there is not a washer that size available that's paper thin.

And don't worry about stepping away for a while. I paused my build several times. My car sat on jack stands with no engine in it for several months this year. Last year I didn't do much at all to it and felt like I just did this constantly when I worked on it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) . Just take your time.

I detailed the hose swap in Kent's thread so he could do his. It's very easy.

Hose Install

I just did a quick night time run. Stand by it's uploading. I THINK we were out there at 9:14 so here's to Ron (SLITS) and all our other pals who have moved on to greener pastures (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) .

[Chris H.]

Here it is...not too exciting but the engine sounds good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t7X0bSQkgY

[A&P Mech]

Thanks Andrew!

I finally found that sensor tee. Here's what I used for the oil pressure sensor:

Pressure sensor adapter

This isn't quite the cheapest one but it gives the best explanation. Most Japanese cars have 1/8 BSPT sender threads, while the more common one speed hut comes with is 1/8 NPT. This one allows you to use both. The Subaru sender is pretty big so it sits on top.

I used this for water temp.

water temp 1.25 pipe

Don't think I bought it from Taiwan but who knows... Just added a small section of hose and put it it right by the outlet. You could also tap the pipe itself on the engine, I just wasn't quite confident enough to do that with aluminum.

Chris,

I ordered my SpeedHut gauges last night! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) Thanks for the above information.

Ray

[76-914]

Here it is...not too exciting but the engine sounds good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t7X0bSQkgY

Not too exciting, huh? What are you talking about? I could hear you grinning in that video. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) That thrill doesn't go away either! Congrats again, Chris. That "School of Stick to IT-ness" is Hell but once you go thru it you gain an invaluable life experience. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[914forme]

For others who are reading, the primary issue with the EG33 is that the water pump is too good. At high RPMs, at least in the SVX, the pump is pushing enough water that there isn't enough volume coming back in behind the impeller to keep up. This causes cavitation, thus steam and a hot spot in the motor. Not good. Several SVX sites have threads dealing with this issue which essentially recommend resizing the inlet hose to 1.5+ inches and also resizing the thermostat housing and relocating the thermostat to the outlet side. I think Chris' 1.25 hose seems to work well because of the added length of the hose coming into the inlet (compared to the very short hose from the radiator on the SVX, providing enough volume for those high RPM moments and effectively eliminating those cavitation events experienced by others.

Thus the reason I switched to an electric water pump. The correct volume not dependent on engine RPMs.

Also no T-stat needed with the setup.

And I think I can bleed the coolant with out running the engine. At least that is my theory, yet to be proven.

[KELTY360]

Here it is...not too exciting but the engine sounds good.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t7X0bSQkgY

Sounds great! Loved the giggles.

[914forme]

Just watched the video Chris (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) And yes that is exactly what a 3.3 in full song should sound like. Great job (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Chris H.]

Thanks everyone. It's been a long road and I would never have gotten this far without the help. Another example of how great the site is. BTW flmont (Frank) bought an EG33 so he's officially in the fold now. He'll be starting a build thread soon.

I realized recently that I like tinkering with the dang thing as much as driving it, but at least it's good to go now and I can start on the cosmetics and smaller stuff. I definitely will go to Megasquirt at some point but not quite yet.

Next steps:

- build a console to enclose the shifter and hide the cables, etc.
- swap stock WRX starter with one that does not poke through the trunk. I THINK 23300AA560 will do it. Will let you know.
- pick up some rear trunk sheet metal from someone's parts car to close in the holes from the original manifold configuration and the stock starter. I know a guy who is addicted to welding. Maybe he'll (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) when his fingers heal in trade for some stuff (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . Or maybe grind some seam welds for him (yes Kent, I WILL wear eye protection (IMG:style_emoticons/default/britt.gif)!)
- Move the ECU into the passenger compartment within the new center console and keep tidying the wiring.
- possibly change the way my radiator vents. maybe not though. Why mess with it? At least do some sort of seal that directs the air only to the exit point. Precision Chassis' EG33 car with the 6 speed Boxster trans has their radiator leaning back and venting out the floor. Its totally sealed to ensure the air flow is maximized.

[ThePaintedMan]

Thus the reason I switched to an electric water pump. The correct volume not dependent on engine RPMs.

Also no T-stat needed with the setup.

And I think I can bleed the coolant with out running the engine. At least that is my theory, yet to be proven.

Stephen, can you point me to some pictures of how you did it then? I know the stock pump would need to be gutted, but not sure about how to go about that.

[Chris H.]

Yeah there are two ways to do it. 1. "Helper pump" where you keep the other pump and the electric pump just closes the gap when needed and then 2. just having an electric pump only. I'd assume you just take the impeller off with the 2nd way and just let whatever's left spin freely or grind the vanes down.

PRETTY sure you could bleed the system without running the engine with an electric pump Steve. Definitely 90% of the way if you had a simple hose layout. The only thing you don't get is heat, which does help, especially with the last few stubborn air bubbles.

Ray, let me know if you have any questions on the gauges. Given what you've done on your car you are probably more advance than me on the wiring side. It's very easy. You might be able to do what I just did with the coolant temp sender as well. Not sure what the configuration is on the 2.5. The SVX has a sender for the fuel gauge and a sensor for the ECU. Got lucky and the gauge sender was the same thread size as the Speedhut one.

[mgp4591]

Yeah there are two ways to do it. 1. "Helper pump" where you keep the other pump and the electric pump just closes the gap when needed and then 2. just having an electric pump only. I'd assume you just take the impeller off with the 2nd way and just let whatever's left spin freely or grind the vanes down.

PRETTY sure you could bleed the system without running the engine with an electric pump Steve. Definitely 90% of the way if you had a simple hose layout. The only thing you don't get is heat, which does help, especially with the last few stubborn air bubbles.

Chris, would you think that leaving the stock water pump in place would help to keep the water in the engine long enough to complete the heat soak cycle? Just using the helper pump up front to push fluid back from the radiator so the stock pump isn't overworked? My setup isn't running yet so I wouldn't know...
Your build is kickin' it and I'd love to see it sometime, but you know this whole distance thing is a bitch...

[Chris H.]

Yeah any time you're in the area let me know. Steve would be better to answer the electric pump question. I just shared all the knowledge I have (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . I'm just running the stock one. It works fine for the street. I think Mike Bellis uses an electric pump maybe? Andrew might? Or is planning to? Someone will chime in.