Q: If using a high torque starter, is hot start relay needed? |
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Q: If using a high torque starter, is hot start relay needed? |
Jason74914 |
Jun 2 2016, 10:38 PM
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 9-January 16 From: Dallas Member No.: 19,544 Region Association: None |
The PO (who also lived in Texas, where it can get very hot) had installed a "homemade" hot start relay setup. It works fine, but there are alot of extra wires and a big wiring loom going across the engine bay. Last thing I need is more clutter in the engine bay!
Question: If I install a quality high torque starter, would it eliminate the need for the hot start relay setup, or not? Thanks, Jason |
Rand |
Jun 2 2016, 10:53 PM
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#2
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Cross Member Group: Members Posts: 7,409 Joined: 8-February 05 From: OR Member No.: 3,573 Region Association: None |
Controversial subject. I've never used hot start relays because I felt like they were a band-aid for an unhealthy starter circuit. The solenoid is the real relay for the big current. BUT, the long runs and the starter switch can be the most significant reasons to use a relay. If you are in that camp, it has nothing to do with the starter.
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iankarr |
Jun 2 2016, 11:04 PM
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#3
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,472 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
It's all about how much juice it takes to engage the solenoid. Installing a high torque starter probably won't eliminate the need for a relay. As Rand mentioned, the long runs and 40+ year old wire introduce a lot of resistance in the circuit. When things are hot, the resistance is greater...which is why the circuit may not carry enough current to trigger the solenoid.
Compared to re-wiring the entire starter circuit, adding a relay is a simple fix. I like the "ford" solution. I paired that with a high torque starter and haven't had a hot start issue since. Here's a good thread on it.. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=84670 |
Jason74914 |
Jun 3 2016, 07:09 AM
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 9-January 16 From: Dallas Member No.: 19,544 Region Association: None |
Thanks Cuddyk.
Wow, that "ford solution" is a MUCH cleaner install than what my PO put together. I can't tell from the picture, how is that relay mounted to the starter? Just using an existing bolt, or is there a bracket needed. Also, how is that relay grounded? (Relays need a ground) |
SLITS |
Jun 3 2016, 08:26 AM
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#5
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"This Utah shit is HARSH!" Group: Benefactors Posts: 13,602 Joined: 22-February 04 From: SoCal Mountains ... Member No.: 1,696 Region Association: None |
Thanks Cuddyk. Wow, that "ford solution" is a MUCH cleaner install than what my PO put together. I can't tell from the picture, how is that relay mounted to the starter? Just using an existing bolt, or is there a bracket needed. Also, how is that relay grounded? (Relays need a ground) Mine is mounted to the underside of the trunk floor above the starter with a 1/4X 20 fastener. |
Mark Henry |
Jun 3 2016, 08:30 AM
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#6
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
Thanks Cuddyk. Wow, that "ford solution" is a MUCH cleaner install than what my PO put together. I can't tell from the picture, how is that relay mounted to the starter? Just using an existing bolt, or is there a bracket needed. Also, how is that relay grounded? (Relays need a ground) I carefully bend and dremel to size one bracket ear and mount the solenoid on the bottom starter mounting bolt. I cut no wires, use a 914 (or VW) ground lug for the spade connector. The bracket is the ground. |
Valy |
Jun 3 2016, 10:18 AM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,671 Joined: 6-April 10 From: Sunnyvale, CA Member No.: 11,573 Region Association: Northern California |
A high torque starter will need more power, loading your old wires more than the regular starter.
If you had power distribution problems to the starter, then the high torque starter will make that worse. Of course, if the problem was the old starter or solenoid that was clogged and burning a lot of power on itself, a new starter will make those wiring issues less obvious and the hot start relay will seem not needed. I don't agree the hot start relay is a band-aid. It solves the bad wiring issue with a bypass circuit. If you use it for some other issue then it's actually more like a hair growing formula. |
iankarr |
Jun 3 2016, 04:23 PM
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#8
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,472 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
I was able to attach the ford relay directly to the starter case, which grounded it as well. Here are some pics...
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