Al Reed restoration -- what size shoes to wear?, New Tires are mounted Options

[Jett]

With the help of this form and others, we have been slowly restoring our Delphi Green 73 914 2.0/4 Appearence package and are finally approaching the completion. In preparation of the build completion we asked Al Reed to restore our wheels and they arrived this morning. We think the wheels are amazing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

That said, I was going to install a set of P7s 165 70 15.

Thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Please note that we will share the entire build once complete, thanks again for all the help!

[Tom_T]

Al's shop does such great work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

Jett - what type of a resto are you doing? .... what is your goal?
.... Concours or Driver? .... Originality? .... Resto Mod?

Those 165/70R15 will give you a pretty big odometer error of 16% IIRC, so you'll add up "shadow" or "ghost mileage" post resto pretty quickly, & pay the ultimate value penalty for it later on down the road, as did other members on here. So you'll want to use one of the tire error calculators online to compare with the stock 165/80R15 size for error, to try to minimize it.

For example, Todd914 on here did a pristine CW refurb of a nice low mile original survivor red/black 73 2L & put the factory recco'd substitue 195/65R15s on with half your Pirelli's error at about 8%, & paid the penalty of a couple of $10Ks when he sold it after a short hold

Your wheels look to be dead on original correct - down to anodizing them & with the dulled down background.

So if you're looking for period correct - the 73-76 2.0's came with H speed rated tires in 165HR15 (i.e.: 165/80HR15 in today's /80 profile size), & you should stick with the 165HR15 (or at least a 165SR15 or TR, which weren't around back then) size tires.

Check at Lucas Tires in Long Beach CA & their UK counterpart Longstone Tyres for what they have (US can get anything on the UK site as well). You'll find that their tire prices are better than Coker in most cases, & Al could've had theirs mounted on his wheels for you, had you made the choice before he shipped them (for futre ref & for others reading here).

http://www.lucasclassictires.com

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk

There are also Universal & Coker to price check as well -

https://www.universaltire.com

https://www.cokertire.com

Some of the question is also what you want to drop $$s for a set of 5 tires, cuz they range from $70-100 each for basic B-brand 165/80SR15s, up to $400-500 for 185 XWX Michelins. Also, a member here has 2 unused/never mounted XWXs in the Parts FS classifieds for a reasonable price (for those), to get part way there.

Vredestein has a decent HR one at the lower end, & sometimes Bridgestone will have an SR or TR or HR rated 165/80R15, & there are some off-brand or B-brand 165/80R15's out there too, but I wouldn't recco any of them.

FYI - T speed rating is adequate for our 2Ls /4s but wasn't out back then, & HR was overkill beyond the rated 119 mph spec top speed of a 73-74 2L (I've had my stock 73 2L up to 126 though), so the HR goes with more cushion, whereas the SR is too low for a 2L, but was spec'd for the 1.7L & 1.8L with lower top speeds - but are usable in real world sub-100 mph use..

The next step up would be the period correct mfgrs. & both Pirelli Cinturato & Michelin have 165/80R15 in S, H, & V speed ratings: Michiliin in XZX SR, XAS HR (the XAS needs tubes), as well as the period option XWX 185/70VR15 (nominal <0.1% error IIRC).

Another option there is on a tire very much like the OE "Dog-bone tread" Dunlop SP57 165HR15's which were most often spec'd on our 2Ls, 194-6's & 911s of that day (the 185 XWX above being the optional upgrade), is the modern retro tire by Blockley here:

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/165VR15-B...Radial-504p.htm

While those choices above will look most original & period correct on your resto, you won't be dinged at any of the local Region nor Zone PCA Concours for having non-original size &/or make tires (originality isn't judged here in our Zone 8, & AFAIK not in your Zone either), & may only run into it at a non-PCA Concours where they'd look for old school Michi or Pirelli etc., & maybe at the national PCA Parade Concours. that's my truth in advertizing bit on tires, but I do like the old school size & make look on a well restored or perserved survivor 914.

If you're looking for a driving tire & don't care about odometer error, then others on here are probably up to date on the current choices, but I would still suggest using the tire calculator to get the least speedo/odo error tires with the performance specs/profile for which you're looking.

Also beware that some of the wider tires will give you rub marks on the inner front wheelwells, &/or at the outer F &/or R fender lips, which would cause damage to your frest paint - so choose wisely & test them out on the lift with full lock turns L & R, & at the R fenders.

There is a Tires & Wheels nailed topic at the O&H Forum with a lot of info on tires too FYI.

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

[Cal]

Al's shop does such great work! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

Jett - what type of a resto are you doing? .... what is your goal?
.... Concours or Driver? .... Originality? .... Resto Mod?

Those 165/70R15 will give you a pretty big odometer error of 16% IIRC, so you'll add up "shadow" or "ghost mileage" post resto pretty quickly, & pay the ultimate value penalty for it later on down the road, as did other members on here. So you'll want to use one of the tire error calculators online to compare with the stock 165/80R15 size for error, to try to minimize it.

For example, Todd914 on here did a pristine CW refurb of a nice low mile original survivor red/black 73 2L & put the factory recco'd substitue 195/65R15s on with half your Pirelli's error at about 8%, & paid the penalty of a couple of $10Ks when he sold it after a short hold

Your wheels look to be dead on original correct - down to anodizing them & with the dulled down background.

So if you're looking for period correct - the 73-76 2.0's came with H speed rated tires in 165HR15 (i.e.: 165/80HR15 in today's /80 profile size), & you should stick with the 165HR15 (or at least a 165SR15 or TR, which weren't around back then) size tires.

Check at Lucas Tires in Long Beach CA & their UK counterpart Longstone Tyres for what they have (US can get anything on the UK site as well). You'll find that their tire prices are better than Coker in most cases, & Al could've had theirs mounted on his wheels for you, had you made the choice before he shipped them (for futre ref & for others reading here).

http://www.lucasclassictires.com

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk

There are also Universal & Coker to price check as well -

https://www.universaltire.com

https://www.cokertire.com

Some of the question is also what you want to drop $$s for a set of 5 tires, cuz they range from $70-100 each for basic B-brand 165/80SR15s, up to $400-500 for 185 XWX Michelins. Also, a member here has 2 unused/never mounted XWXs in the Parts FS classifieds for a reasonable price (for those), to get part way there.

Vredestein has a decent HR one at the lower end, & sometimes Bridgestone will have an SR or TR or HR rated 165/80R15, & there are some off-brand or B-brand 165/80R15's out there too, but I wouldn't recco any of them.

FYI - T speed rating is adequate for our 2Ls /4s but wasn't out back then, & HR was overkill beyond the rated 119 mph spec top speed of a 73-74 2L (I've had my stock 73 2L up to 126 though), so the HR goes with more cushion, whereas the SR is too low for a 2L, but was spec'd for the 1.7L & 1.8L with lower top speeds - but are usable in real world sub-100 mph use..

The next step up would be the period correct mfgrs. & both Pirelli Cinturato & Michelin have 165/80R15 in S, H, & V speed ratings: Michiliin in XZX SR, XAS HR (the XAS needs tubes), as well as the period option XWX 185/70VR15 (nominal <0.1% error IIRC).

Another option there is on a tire very much like the OE "Dog-bone tread" Dunlop SP57 165HR15's which were most often spec'd on our 2Ls, 194-6's & 911s of that day (the 185 XWX above being the optional upgrade), is the modern retro tire by Blockley here:

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/165VR15-B...Radial-504p.htm

While those choices above will look most original & period correct on your resto, you won't be dinged at any of the local Region nor Zone PCA Concours for having non-original size &/or make tires (originality isn't judged here in our Zone 8, & AFAIK not in your Zone either), & may only run into it at a non-PCA Concours where they'd look for old school Michi or Pirelli etc., & maybe at the national PCA Parade Concours. that's my truth in advertizing bit on tires, but I do like the old school size & make look on a well restored or perserved survivor 914.

If you're looking for a driving tire & don't care about odometer error, then others on here are probably up to date on the current choices, but I would still suggest using the tire calculator to get the least speedo/odo error tires with the performance specs/profile for which you're looking.

Also beware that some of the wider tires will give you rub marks on the inner front wheelwells, &/or at the outer F &/or R fender lips, which would cause damage to your frest paint - so choose wisely & test them out on the lift with full lock turns L & R, & at the R fenders.

There is a Tires & Wheels nailed topic at the O&H Forum with a lot of info on tires too FYI.

Good Luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
///////

Tom, were the Michelin 185 XWX tires originally offered as a factory option back in the day for a 914/4?

[Tom_T]

Tom, were the Michelin 185 XWX tires originally offered as a factory option back in the day for a 914/4?

Yes Cal, see the 1st of the 2 listed M471 options at Jeff Bowlsby's site at the link below:

http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/OpEq.htm

I don't know offhand if nor what the specific factory option code was to order the XWX 185/75VR15 Michelins on the 15x5.5J 914/4 Alloy wheels (Fuchs 2L, Pedrini & Mahle 4-lug "Baby Gasburner" wheels), but I knew a couple of guys who got them ordered on their new 914s back in the day (a 73 2L & 74 2L on Fuchs 2L wheels).

I knew one other guy who had the dealer upgrade to them at $0 cost on a 76 2L, after I decided not to get that particular detuned GC powered 914 2L, since when I referred him, I said the dealer was desperate to move it & he got a good bargain price + XWXs & radio (DM inflation was killing all Porsche sales back then in late 73 to 76 & beyond, so they threw in stuff).

The 185/75VR15's XWX itres with dog-bone tread (& 14" counterparts for -6s with 14" Fuchs) perform very well & was THE choice of all the 914/4 & many -6 "Racer Boyz/Galz" back then, but dropped maybe 20-25% off the mpgs for street/hwy/DD use.

The Dunlop SP57 & Semperit M401/M501 165HR15 tires were like "Baby XWXs" & so performed well too, but with better DD mpg. The Blockley is a modern reproduction of those dogbone tread tires, since Dunlop & Semperit do not do theirs in repops, as you can see from the pix below.

XWX 185/70VR15 (/75 is NLA) -


Blockley 165/80HR15 (similar to Dunlop SP57/Semperit M401/M501) -


This is a Dunlop SP57 165HR15 (/80) -


This is my spare tire - the last of the Semperit M401 165HR15 (/80) -


Although each is slightly different treads, they do have a consistent tread design approach.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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