Turbo oiling question(s)...., getting oil "back" to the engine.... Options

[Mueller]

How critical is the draining of the oil from the turbo back to the engine?

For the turbo that is not going to be installed on my car, 'cause you cannot turbo a 914, I'm toying with mounting the turbo either right behind the collector on my header (see second picture...red outline on header, mine is similar to the one in picture....) (a la' Chapman's 3.0 turbo setup with turbo in the back)

or use a mandrel bent U bend pipe to locate the turbo up where Ben M (airsix) has his turbo located
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-2-1095059341.jpg)

Since the oil going to the turbo is pressurized, shouldn't the oil have no problems getting out of the bearings of the turbo and back to the motor without assistance??

[McMark]

If you put the turbo back by the muffler will you have the air intake/filter back there too? Might be interesting. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

[Aaron Cox]

before the muffler loks like the easiest way to me.....

when are you going to get started dude?
if anyone ould do it...you can mike (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

[john rogers]

If I remember correctly our 1987 930 has a drain from the turbo that goes to a small catch can and then back to the sump? I'll take a look to be sure but I remember the lines are all stainless steel since the turbo gets pretty hot when you have your foot in it!

[Mueller]

QUOTE (john rogers @ Apr 18 2005, 10:30 AM)

If I remember correctly our 1987 930 has a drain from the turbo that goes to a small catch can and then back to the sump? I'll take a look to be sure but I remember the lines are all stainless steel since the turbo gets pretty hot when you have your foot in it!

I've seen small electric oil pumps for this application, but I'm hoping to avoid spending the $250 or so for one (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

[JoeSharp]

Mike: I had a turbo on a sandrail and ran the return oil through the the valve cover. Had to use RTV to seal it up, turbo cough is exciting. Think I would tap into the rocker aera somewhere and use AN fittings.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Joe

[iamchappy]

If you can mount the engine high enough close to the engine you can let gravity flow it back to the valve cover or if its really high the breather cover.
If you mount it back where I did, you will most likely need a pump I used a Tilton from Pegasus racing for around 200.00.
Dont worry about turbo lag when mounted in back, its not significant enough to make a noticeable difference.

[iamchappy]

One thing I would like to add, if you mount it in the back you can fabricate it like I did and have the turbo , wastegate, and muffler all mounted together for easy removal of the entire setup at once.

[Mueller]

QUOTE (iamchappy @ Apr 18 2005, 11:09 AM)

If you can mount the engine high enough close to the engine you can let gravity flow it back to the valve cover or if its really high the breather cover. If you mount it back where I did, you will most likely need a pump I used a Tilton from Pegasus racing for around 200.00. Dont worry about turbo lag when mounted in back, its not significant enough to make a noticeable difference.

cool...I found the pump @ Summit for $178 w/free shipping

(IMG:http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/til-40-524_w_m.jpg)

[john rogers]

Mike, that is the same pump I use for the tranny cooling system in my race car. They work nice although I don't think it is really needed unless you run on boost for reaaaaaallllllly long periods. The purpose of the can that is in the drain of our 1987 is to grab the oil and when the crank case goes into a vacuum again it will get pulled back easily. I'd try some sort of setup like that and if it fials them get more complicated with the pump.

[TimT]

The 930 has a scavenge pump driven by the front of the drivers side cam. This pumps the oil out of the little sump under the turbo, the dumps the oil into the dry sump tank.

Using the infeed pressure may work, but you also may pump the oil past the turbos seals, and make a nice smokescreen for those behind you.

Modified K27 and K29s had seal problems and scavenge pumps are a must ( when low mounted like on a 930)

also on the 930 the turbo is lower than the dry sump tank, so gravity cant work in this regard.

mount the turbo high, and drain into a valvle cover etc, or use a scavenge pump

[jonwatts]

Gee I thought I might have something to add to this thread but people have already come through with great 'real-world' info.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[iamchappy]

The sump tank attached to the drain outlet of the turbo is good for a few things, it allows the foaming oil to settle so the pump can scavenge it and it allows the turbo to drain oil out of the housing on shut down and helps prime the pump when you restart. I have an extra sump I made with 8AN fittings on it that I am no longer using if you need one.

I am also using my Tilton pump now as a tranny cooler

[iamchappy]

Heres a picture of the cam pump and sump on my setup

[iamchappy]

Heres with the Tilton pump

[Mueller]

QUOTE

if anyone ould do it...you can mike

that should be:

if Mike could do it......anyone can do it (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

thanks for the info peoples, I'll try the sump/gravity method 1st....

[airsix]

Hey Mike,
I cringe every time I see that pic (at top). I've since trimmed the rear engine tin so it's nice and clean back there (unlike the mess pictured). Here is the same pic with the oil drain line pointed out in case it's not clear. I used 5/8" hose with a spring inside. The spring is so I could make the very tight bend to get around to the valve cover. The line is only about 8 or 9 inches long. It goes straight down about 4 inches, makes a 90 degree horizontal bend and then goes about another 4 inches horizontally to a 90 degree elbow at the rear of the valve cover. I havn't had any problems with the turbo seals, but I have new leaks on other places to deal with.

-Ben M.

[Brett W]

Turbos drain back oil is not pressurized. You must have a drain line that has enough room to handle foamy, aerated oil. Preferably 10-12 AN. MOst people will not agree with me but I see lots of people building ghetto kits as well. So I won't agree with them either.

As far as a pump goes, call Grainger and get a Water Puppy. That is the same pump that Tilton uses. You should be able to get it for 150 or less. I like the Idea of a small sump That is the way to go.

Of course if you divided the engine bay you could mount it up high like ED did and wouldn't have to worry about it.

[airsix]

QUOTE (Brett W @ Apr 19 2005, 04:36 AM)

Turbos drain back oil is not pressurized. You must have a drain line that has enough room to handle foamy, aerated oil. Preferably 10-12 AN. MOst people will not agree with me but I see lots of people building ghetto kits as well. So I won't agree with them either.

Well, AN 10 is 3/4" and AN 12 is 1". That's pretty big. I don't see any reason to go bigger than the nipple coming out of the turbo housing. Mine took a 5/8" hose, which was also the size of the drain hose in the stock application. As far as hose/connector type - I see no reason to use expensive AN fittings since as you said - the oil return is NOT pressurized. It would look very nice though.

-Ben M.

[Brett W]

Biting my tongue.