 Clutch/flywheel Gurus, What does this indicate? |
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| Joseph Mills |
 May 7 2005, 05:53 PM
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#1
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on a Sonoma diet now...  Group: Members Posts: 1,482 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Oklahoma City, OK Member No.: 39  |
The flywheel pictured below has 5k miles on it along with a new pressure plate, clutch disc, throw out bearing, etc.
Clutch slips under full immediate throttle from a healthy four. What are all the "spots" an indication of? Attached image(s) 
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| bondo |
May 7 2005, 06:41 PM
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#2
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Practicing my perpendicular parking Group: Members Posts: 4,277 Joined: 19-April 03 From: Los Osos, CA Member No.: 587 Region Association: Central California |
It looks like grease or oil got on there, (radial streaks) and contaminated your clutch. Probably the source of the slipping and the spots. (but I'm no expert)
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| Allan |
May 7 2005, 06:44 PM
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#3
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Teenerless Weenie Group: Members Posts: 8,373 Joined: 5-July 04 From: Western Mesopotamia Member No.: 2,304 Region Association: Southern California |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) Looks like grease or oil coming from under the flywheel bolts.
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| TimT |
May 7 2005, 06:45 PM
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#4
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retired Group: Members Posts: 4,033 Joined: 18-February 03 From: Wantagh, NY Member No.: 313 |
To much grease in the pilot bearing.
from the amount of grease on the mating surface.. I cant believe your clutch slipped from grease though.... something else is going on.. |
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| Joseph Mills |
May 7 2005, 06:57 PM
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#5
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on a Sonoma diet now... Group: Members Posts: 1,482 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Oklahoma City, OK Member No.: 39 |
I guess that the "radial" streaks are from the grease I applied to the throwout bearing and grease I inserted into the output shaft bearing in the flywheel?
I don't see how they relate to all the "spots". The spots are burned into the new flywheel. This being the first time I have ever done this, I have NO idea what they are. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) And, possibly, more important, what does it mean? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif) |
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| davep |
May 7 2005, 07:09 PM
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#6
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914 Historian Group: Benefactors Posts: 5,137 Joined: 13-October 03 From: Burford, ON, N0E 1A0 Member No.: 1,244 Region Association: Canada  |
The spots look like burn marks. Possibly burnt grease. Did you have the felt seal on top of the bearing?
Was the flywheel resurfaced? Was it resurfaced properly? The height of the mounting surface for the PP from the friction surface is critical. Is the friction disc the correct thickness? Is the PP fully engaging? |
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| Joseph Mills |
May 7 2005, 07:43 PM
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#7
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on a Sonoma diet now... Group: Members Posts: 1,482 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Oklahoma City, OK Member No.: 39 |
Brand spankin' new flywheel.
New disc, pressures plate, etc. This was done at the same time a top end rebuild was done. I seem to remember the felt seal was properly placed. So these are "burn" marks? |
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| Joseph Mills |
May 7 2005, 07:47 PM
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#8
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on a Sonoma diet now... Group: Members Posts: 1,482 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Oklahoma City, OK Member No.: 39 |
Actually, I guess I mis-spoke again. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
WHY is my clutch slipping? |
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| J P Stein |
May 7 2005, 08:56 PM
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#9
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
Note the grease (?) has migrated to the outer edge of the flywheel. It had to go around the disc to get there....between the flywheel/disc or disc/pressure plate...or both, but most likely the former.....burn marks are from slippage, me thiinks.
Figure out where the shittage is coming from, clean up the surfaces and get a new disc. |
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| sgomes |
May 7 2005, 09:50 PM
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#10
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Electric Member Group: Members Posts: 815 Joined: 6-May 04 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 2,029 |
Can we see a pic of the disk just for the heck of it? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)
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| SirAndy |
May 8 2005, 12:31 AM
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#11
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,607 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) show us the disk! |
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| Joseph Mills |
May 8 2005, 12:35 AM
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#12
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on a Sonoma diet now... Group: Members Posts: 1,482 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Oklahoma City, OK Member No.: 39 |
Hey sgomes Okay just for the heck of it... here's a pic of the clutch disc...lettering stamp is still there.??? Most likely, I'm just in denial, like the river... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Hard to admit you fucked up... Although I'd still like to know what I did. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Attached image(s) 
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| SirAndy |
May 8 2005, 12:38 AM
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#13
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,607 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
dude. wtf? how many miles? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) Andy |
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| Joseph Mills |
May 8 2005, 12:48 AM
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#14
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on a Sonoma diet now... Group: Members Posts: 1,482 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Oklahoma City, OK Member No.: 39 |
5k on the engine, tranny, & clutch. |
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| SirAndy |
May 8 2005, 12:57 AM
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#15
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,607 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
looks like your clutch wasn't clutching at all ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) Andy |
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| Type 4 Unleashed |
May 8 2005, 01:28 AM
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#16
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CREATIVE TYPE lV ENGINEERING Group: Retired Members Posts: 787 Joined: 20-June 04 From: Aliso Viejo, ca Member No.: 2,231 Region Association: None |
Even though, it's new, it's the probally the pressure plate, are there any spots or blueing on the plate, the clutch disk, looks to have plenty of meat, the plate provides the clamping force, but the clutch was slipping, so no clamping force.
It looks like it wasn't a whole lot of grease, what there was, was burnt off Is it the picture? Or is your flywheel missing the alignment pins for the pressure plate (3 0f them)? Look at your plate, where the T O Bearing rides, all the tangs should be the same height, all the way around, if there are some of them that seem to be lower than the rest, there's your problem. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) There are some heavy duty plates out there, other than the KEP plates. |
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| Joseph Mills |
May 8 2005, 01:55 AM
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#17
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on a Sonoma diet now... Group: Members Posts: 1,482 Joined: 29-December 02 From: Oklahoma City, OK Member No.: 39 |
Throw out bearing and pressure plate is good to go...(not broken)... Only weird thing is the flywheel with the spots. I know someone knows what this is. Well... that's what I'm hopin...fer (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) post script: I hate to admit it, but I didn't have any alignment pins on hand. That could not possibly be my problem... Right? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) |
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| Thorshammer |
May 8 2005, 10:23 AM
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#18
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 11-November 03 Member No.: 1,335 |
They are just what you think they are, Hot spots. See this flywheel is an alloy, a mixture of steels to form a given end product, Those spots are from heat. It is common on a clutch slipping problem as yours is. A couple things that will make a clutch slip. Oil, grease those are simple, But many times the flywheel is new to you but is "rebuilt". one of the most common issues is to get a Bus fylwheel instead of a 914 flywheel which can lead to some very odd clearance issues. If you take a straight edge the spots will be raised just slightly, You may need to have the surface machined.Or try this....
Get a rotary scotchbright pad and clean the flywheel surface, don't be afraid to rough it up a bit. The disc will polish it okay. In the workshop manual there is a depth measurement for the clutch disc surface and I suggest you check it. If the clutch surface has been machined and the pressure plate mounting has not it will reduce the clamping force on the disc. This could very well be the problem. Also, does the clutch pedal move freely and return completely, if not it can stick and reduce the pressure plate force. When Installing a new disc, just a tiny tiny bit of lube on the pilot shaft is all thats needed, I mean tiny. After that the clutch is a pretty simple piece. Enough clamping force and the proper depth will work wonders. Hope this helps. Erik Madsen |
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| Type 4 Unleashed |
May 8 2005, 10:49 AM
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#19
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CREATIVE TYPE lV ENGINEERING Group: Retired Members Posts: 787 Joined: 20-June 04 From: Aliso Viejo, ca Member No.: 2,231 Region Association: None |
At, what point in the 5,000 miles did the clutch start slipping? The excess grease you put on the pilot bearing and input shaft, started coming out the first day you started driving, and there couldn't have been that much. (That is grease you wiped your finger through in the picture?)
The alignment pins, are there for a reason, if that was the problem, then the clutch would of sliped from day one, (take the pins out of the old flywheel) The clutch looks fine, clean it with some Brakkleen, then sand it with some rough paper to clean off any carbon build up. (If you don't want to use this greased soaked disk, send it to me I will (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smoke.gif)) I still think it's the pressure plate (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) |
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| TravisNeff |
May 8 2005, 11:00 AM
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#20
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 5,082 Joined: 20-March 03 From: Mesa, AZ Member No.: 447 Region Association: Southwest Region 
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Could it be as simple as the clutch being too tight?, depth of the pivot on the throwout arm?
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