1970-72 914-6/914-4 Seatbelt Holster, O&H Info for the CW Types Options

[Tom_T]

For those CW's who care, I'll pass along some info which was given to me in a couple of emails from a renown 914 restoration expert & judge involved since from the old days when they were new.

I decided to share this with the O&H Forum where most of we CWs look for help, for informational purposes, & note that mine is an early 73 2.0 - so I have no vested interest in this item on my 914. However, I may someday be called upon to judge where this originality item may come into the judging criteria, but read below for where that comes into play.

So please don't shoot the messenger on this if you disagree, & try to treat your posted inputs congenially & helpfully to fellow members who are restoring &/or preparing their early 914s for show .... or sale.

As for my own judging background - I've been in PCA since 2009 & took the Zone 8 Judging School then (+ every year or two since), have been judging in PCA Zone 8 since 2010 at 3-5+ Concours events a year (so probably over 25-30 CdEs so far I'd guess, without looking at my past years' calendars) - but not at any PCA Parades to date nor AACA/CCCA/etc. CdE yet where originality is judged - & in the process I have gotten to know many more qualified judges & restorers of these fun 914 cars in that time than am I, as well as those whom I've met over the long time since 1970.

I got my 73 914-2.0 ("914S") in 1975 as 2nd owner, & drooled over them at the dealers & over other folks' 914s since they were released in Fall of 1969. I did shortly consider getting a new 914/4 as my 1st car in Fall 1970, but my budget was only $800 & I wouldn't have the means to make enough money to both make payments/insurance, & pay for my college degree - so I waited until after I graduated in June `74 & then had a good job to get mine in `75. So I've been around 914s since 1970, looked at many over 1975 to purchase new or used, & have owned mine since Dec. 1975, & had done a repaint/rust repair in Summer 1976, & a full cosmetic & mechanical rolling resto/refurb in 1980-83, & have been researching, parts sourcing & slowing working on it's 3rd & full resto since 2009.

My concours experience goes back further than my 914 ownership & later judging, as I'd also helped one of my uncles with his prep & restoration of his 1958 Corvette back in the mid-1960's for the much more stringent on originality Corvette Club, before it was his class record holding dragster at OC Raceway in the later 1960s, & after it was a true barn-found car that he bought from the widow of the OO in 1961, & then he used it as his DD for several years.

So I do know a bit about 914s & CdEs myself. Moreover & more importantly, I've gotten to know some folks whom I consider excellent experienced & knowledgeable resources on originality & judging of 914s, Porsches & many other marques & models - including several past & present PCA Parade level judges. Therefore, I can say that my "Deepthroat" source for this information is very reliable & extremely knowledgeable about 914s & on this particular matter - unless somebody comes forth with written documentation from Porsche to the contrary. But who does not wish to weigh-in personally on the matter here. The way some members talk on here, it is preferred by them to just read & not post themselves - & frankly I don't blame them!

In the time of my recent judging & working on researching, parts sourcing & working on my most recent/current 914 restoration of my car (albeit slowly) - I've relied on a few select sources on originality for my `73 2L's resto, & this info is from one of them, & this source may just be judging your 914 at a PCA Parade or other event someday, when originality on this item may come into play for your car's scoriing (words of warning).

In my judgement, you're foolish not to heed this helpful information.

However, today 45-47 years later, there are a bunch of 914 folks not finding them on their cars, & are rightfully a bit confused as to why not, & why they see no screw mounting holes on their left or driver longitudinal. Likewise, some may see them on the right side for those UK & Commonwealth Countries with RHD, & Japan, etc. where the like to drive RHD.

Additionally, some have posted elsewhere that their 914 has them on both sides - which I suspect the passenger side would be on either an owner add-on, or an added right one from a RHD conversion 914 (just my postulation). AFAIK VW-Porsche never did factory RHD 914s, but the cars were designed/engineered to accept RHD, so some conversion companies in the RHD countries did the conversions aftermarket.

If you read the quotes from the 914 restorer & judge friend of mine below, you will see that they were a standard factory item from 1970-72 MYs on the driver's side only, & my guess or supposition is that it was done due to interference with & difficulty in retrieving from around the e-brake on the left side in LHD countries' 914s. Ergo none was deemed needed on the right or passenger side with either fixed passenger/right seat or with the space around the movable right seat (72>), if the belt dropped down in there. It was just one of the little details which VW-Porsche included in the early cars to make them easier for the owners, & became unnecessary when the retractable 3-point belts came out in the 1973 MY.

Here is the information compiled from several posts on several topics on 914world to better illustrate & define the factory supplied seat belt holder FYI - & Thanx to those members whose information was included below from their other posts on 914world.

Posted by me from my source:
"Based on a reliable source from the old days, who is far smarter than am I on these 914 details:

"The seat belt tongue holster was installed on all 914 and 914-6 models from model year 1970 to model year 1972 until 12/31/71. One per car on the driver's side with four 2.9x9.5 lens head screws to secure Factory part number is 91480314110 If you do not have one on your drivers side, your car is not correct!"

If your screws are pulling out, then they're probably either the wrong length screws &/or the carpet isn't original, since some after market carpets are a slightly deeper pile/backer material. [Edit: the factory screws were small, so often could not penetrate past the thicker loop pile carpet, as noted in the other quote below, & you may not see any hole, but only a slight dimple or nothing.]

My supposition was always since back in the 70's, that they put this "Holster" in to get it away from jamming the folding e-brake, which became unnecessary when the retractable belts came in."

Posted by Glenn S.:
"I believe the part number is 914.803.141.10
I think it was so the seat belt did not interfere with the hand brake
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-1785-1494363085.jpg)"

Also posted by me from my source:
"One more clarification for those reading here who really care about originality for their car - I would put more weight on those posting here holsters or not from the ORIGINAL OWNERS of the subject 914s - vs. 2nd, 3rd, etc. owners "looking for holes".

"Those screws were so tiny that many did not pierce the rockers but rather just went into the thick loop carpet on the cars. Only with the perlon could one ever see any penetration.""

Link to Mike Fitton's post on his NOS set of Euro 73 MY ones:
.... (My guess is that apparently they kept the non-retractable belts longer there, or else these are 73 manufactured replacements for the early 70-72 type belts with the holster.)
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=NOS+seat+belts

The NOS Holster is in the bag with teeny-tiny screws in this pic from his post linked above:
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-13069-1482003759.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-13069-1482003721.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-13069-1482003738.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-13069-1482003748.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-13069-1482003807.jpg)
^ More photos added above as later edit for clarity on the full contents of the ealry 70-72 era seatbelt kit's contents. IMHO, the fact that the single seat belt holster & its 4 small mounting screws are packaged in the bag with the rest of the seatbelt hardware, is yet another indicator that it was a standard issue item which was - or should have been - included on all 70-72 914s within the date range noted by my 914 expert.
.

And from Tradisrad's 2009 topic on installing one on his 914:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=101654

Here are his pix of it loose, installed & in-use that he posted there:
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-6815-1259367172.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-6815-1259367244.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-6815-1259367311.jpg)

And pix of the 4 screw holes & as installed on the driver side longitudinal - when they occurred -
of the holes from Paul's 70 /4 from that same topic (he's the OO):
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-5727-1260075392_thumb.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-5727-1260157115_thumb.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-5727-1314577364_thumb.jpg)

And a sideview pic of Michael N's from the linked topic above:
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-2164-1272478646.jpg)

Pic of another one installed by SirAndy for same topic above:
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1280726380_thumb.jpg)
.

As a further indicator that it was intended for the 70-72 914s as a factory item - not a dealer accessory as some have contended, the pic clipped from a parts manual posted in post #14 below by SirAndy - it indicates the 914-6, /4 & 1.7 sub-models of the 70-72 MY era, & is similar but easier to read than the small pic of it where it's called a "holder" from Glenn S's. pic above. ----v

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-179-1494552787.png)
.

And if you want a headache of "screw arguments" - then you can also read on here, since there are several OOs & others posting about this era 914 with the holsters, as an FYI.

See here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...309704&st=0

Another pic from the above topic of Paul's 70 914/4 with the seat belt holster holes location called out:
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-13069-1494429903.gif)

.

Thanx again to all from whom I've borrowed the photos & info herein.

I've culled the key info. from a Garage Forum post where they've decided to let it devolve into an argumentative search for elusive screw holes, despite several posts saying that the screws were too short to reach the steel with the thicker pile carpet.

If you're a true CW & in the interest of erring on the conservative side - I suggest that you forget looking for or worrying about screw holes now 45-47 years later, & Primarily pay attention to the OO reports of them on their own & other known 70-72 914s.

As for the judging for originality on this item - neither most local single, grouped nor multi-marque car shows, nor at the PCA's Zones' & Regions' Concours - all generally do not judge originality. ERgo, it should not matter whether or not you have a holster .... in most cases. However, if they're tie-breaking & either don't have another tie break methodology, or if their method is to look for non-original items/missing original items to break the tie - then you may be at a disadvantage without this seat belt holster on a 70-72 model - &/or with any other non-original items &/or missing items.

It will never show up on a COA, since it wasn't an option, but a standard item/feature.

Please do not devolve this topic into another "screw hole" argument! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

But if you're an original owner, or a later owner who can confirm original fitment of the driver side seatbelt holster in their 914s as originally delivered, &/or with any other info helpful on this topic for owners/restorers/competitors of these cars - then please do chime in! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

Also, if you have factory, PCNA, PAG or other documented information which says otherwise on this being a standard feature on all 70-72 MY cars, &/or with other date limits, &/or other information for the non-USA markets around the world, then please do add that info. here in a post below as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/type.gif)

Note that this sort of documentation from Porsche, PCNA, PAG, etc. by country of origin of your car, is the only type of documentation which will suffice to refute any challenge or judging deduction in those PCA Parade & other CdE's where they do judge on originality, as is a COA when it comes to optional items, colors, etc.

So it is important to force PCNA to correct any errors in their preparation of your COA if you have information to the contrary, such as a Mulroney Window Sticker (which is usually also accepted as documentation for items listed thereon).

Good Luck to you restoring/preserving/showing a 70-72 914 with this item. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

Cheers! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

As noted in the 2nd quote from the expert judge in my O.P., the screws apparently did not always penetrate the steel, & the carpet may have been changed out or the holes disappeared over time - as the fibers tend to go back to original weave, if it were removed.

I think that the strongest evidence that they were included on all cars, was that the holster & screws was included in the NOS factory seatbelt kit posted by the other member who's pix I included in the first post - in addition to the expert opinion of a judge/restorer whose information I trust implicitly.

If you're not trying to restore yours to full originality for PCA Parade or other CdEs where strict originality is judged, or where you're looking to sell it to a purist - or unless you like the idea of having one to keep the belt out of the e-brake area - then I wouldn't sweat it!

As Paul said - it's a mundane detail only on early MYs which really doesn't affect my 73 2.0!

However, with 914-6's now reaching the $100K+ mark - if I had one which I was restoring or showing, then I'd certainly spend the time & effort to make it perfect, & get the holster! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif)

PS - Gandolf, I also meant to say that when PCNA sent out their District Service Mgr. out to my house a few years back to confirm the HO & BO Recalls were not done, & which color interior, fog lights & center console were originally on my 73 914-2.0 from the factory, he said that back in the day the dealers would put 2 cars side-by-side & could completely swap interiors between them for a customer request - & he would know having been a Porsche Tech/SA/SM for several SoCal P-dealers (no names, as I won't subject anyone else from now on to the abuse on here).

He was able to confirm that mine was Beige since PCNA's COA people misinterpreted that code as black, & that no HO Recall was ever done (battery cover & fuel lines), that the fog lights & dash switch had been removed by the selling dealer since the wires were still there & snipped, & same for center console - snipped wires, marks from the under dash bracket & screw hole threads used, & his personal knowledge that all 914-2.0s in the US market in that early part of the 73 MY (built 8/31/72 & sold new 11/6/72) were fitted out as the advertised "914S" with both Appearance & Performance Groups, but couldn't confirm/not that the BO Recall was done (Early non-hubcentric Fuchs 2L wheels used on the new hub-centric "self-centering" front hubs) because the dealer had talked the OO into switching to Rivieras instead, & just kept one or both sets of 5 Fuchs 2L wheels for resale at 100% profit (common back then).

So with all that said, your carpet when first sold, or thereafter by the dealer could have been swapped out (e.g.: if it had wear or stains etc.); or the OO/PO could've removed the holster.

You could look for any evidence of holes in the carpet at the spot, but then again - that would mean nothing to any Parade/etc. judges if you entered it. If you're not entering & not worried for your resto, no big deal. But if you are concerned or if you just want to cover all originality bases, then I'd recco adding it now. Your car, your choice.

Cheers!
Tom
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[SirAndy]

As noted in the 2nd quote from the expert judge in my O.P., the screws apparently did not always penetrate the steel

This makes no sense what-so-ever.

Please do as all a favor and try to screw a sheet metal screw into your long without first drilling a hole.
It is impossible to fasten the holster correctly without first drilling holes.


If this was indeed done by the factory, all of the early cars would have the holes drilled into the long.

The fact that so many early cars do NOT have the holes and show no sign of those holes ever being there makes your assertion that these were factory installed highly implausible.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Tom_T]

As noted in the 2nd quote from the expert judge in my O.P., the screws apparently did not always penetrate the steel

This makes no sense what-so-ever.

Please do as all a favor and try to screw a sheet metal screw into your long without first drilling a hole.
It is impossible to fasten the holster correctly without first drilling holes.


If this was indeed done by the factory, all of the early cars would have the holes drilled into the long.

The fact that so many early cars do NOT have the holes and show no sign of those holes ever being there makes your assertion that these were factory installed highly implausible.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

A - NOT my assertion.

B - The expert said that not all were drilled.

C - Read the above A & B as to why not all have screw holes.

D - No screw holes is apparently NOT definitive.

E - NOT my assertion, but that of the expert who's info I am relaying , see A.

F - You are NOT the expert, nor are you a Parade/AACA/CCCA judge - my expert is - so your opinion of plausability will not hold water on the judging field with any judging team.

G - IF you had owned your 914-6 & /4 since new to positively say it never came with, & were an adult & involved first hand in 914s in 1970-onward, &/or IF you have documentation from Porsche that it was not on all 914s 70-72 MYs - then an originality expert you may be for those level of judges & restorers.

You are not, so they would not listen to your screw opinion, but rather to my expert's opinion - if it were a choice between the 2 of you!

That is just the way PCA Parade, Pebble Beach, Amelia Island & other AACA, CCCA, etc. originality based concours work pal! Get over it!

PS - In fairness to your continued puzzlement on screw holes - just consider this postulated possibility by me on maybe why no screw holes - maybe the guy on the line at Karmann in Osnabruck who was supposed to use the jig to drill the holes for mounting the holster (probably among several other tasks at his station) didn't always quite get around to drilling them on some cars, & since Karmann built the body shells for both /4 & -6 versions - they would also show up on some Stuttgart assembled 914-6's. Then when the interior assembly person responsible for mounting the holsters in 914/4's at Karmann/Osnabruck & the guy for 914-6's at Porsche/Stuttgart screws in the holster over the carpet assuming ther are holes there (is probably told not to worry if not) & then it is only screwed into the carpet alone - as at least one other owner/member on here has stated at one of the Garage Forum posts on this matter, & as I quoted from my source. maybe, just maybe?? Another possibility since the holster obviously came with the non-retractable seatbelt kits from whichever OEM supplier(s) made them (pix above) - is that they should've been there, & maybe should've been mounted or maybe not, & the packet with them & screws which weren't mounted got thrown into the glovebox or center pocket/cushion or center parcel box??

In the end on the concours field it really doesn't matter, since they can, may & possibly/probably would look for it & score accordingly - no matter waht I, you or anyone else thinks on here "should be" or probably was or was not. It's "above my pay grade" & if ever called upon to judge at Parade/etc., then I would be obliged to follow the applicable rules & positions of the experts on that or any other matter.

Arguing the particular source judge/restorer's position on this matter with me changes nothing, nor does arguing the Concours rules. Again - above my pay grade!

However, it does serve to be insulting to me personally to keep harping on me - as if I am the creator of this information & the CdE rules, since I've said that I was not since my first posting it on the other topic about this.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
Tom
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