Desperate for some Help With Microsquirt, Beyond Frustrated Options

[mb123]

I jumped to the end on my phone. Are you still trying to use the 3 bar map? If you are not boost, you should really only use the stock 1 bar. I use a 3 bar on my lsx because i will be boost. Show me your map values for thst 3 bar. If that is not right everything will be off.

[Mblizzard]

I jumped to the end on my phone. Are you still trying to use the 3 bar map? If you are not boost, you should really only use the stock 1 bar. I use a 3 bar on my lsx because i will be boost. Show me your map values for thst 3 bar. If that is not right everything will be off.

Yes still using the 3 Bar but with a linear calibration of 1.1 kPa at 0 volts and 315.5 kPa at 5 volts it should read the normally aspirated range?

[mb123]

I jumped to the end on my phone. Are you still trying to use the 3 bar map? If you are not boost, you should really only use the stock 1 bar. I use a 3 bar on my lsx because i will be boost. Show me your map values for thst 3 bar. If that is not right everything will be off.

Yes still using the 3 Bar but with a linear calibration of 1.1 kPa at 0 volts and 315.5 kPa at 5 volts it should read the normally aspirated range?

Ill take a look am on my tuning laptop

[jd74914]

Yes still using the 3 Bar but with a linear calibration of 1.1 kPa at 0 volts and 315.5 kPa at 5 volts it should read the normally aspirated range?

It will read the ambient pressure range, but with less than optimal resolution. Might not be a big deal since you're not tuning to the nth degree, but I personally would change it out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[McMark]

Yup, it's a matter of resolution.

If any MAP sensor give you say 100 'steps' or readings, then a 3bar MAP sensor will give you 33 steps for NA and 66 steps you don't ever use.
A 1bar MAP will let you use the whole 100 steps for NA.

It's more righter more of the times.

[Mblizzard]

Yup, it's a matter of resolution.

If any MAP sensor give you say 100 'steps' or readings, then a 3bar MAP sensor will give you 33 steps for NA and 66 steps you don't ever use.
A 1bar MAP will let you use the whole 100 steps for NA.

It's more righter more of the times.

Good point.

Ordered.

Anyone need a 3-bar?

[mb123]

Yup, it's a matter of resolution.

If any MAP sensor give you say 100 'steps' or readings, then a 3bar MAP sensor will give you 33 steps for NA and 66 steps you don't ever use.
A 1bar MAP will let you use the whole 100 steps for NA.

It's more righter more of the times.

Good point.

Ordered.

Anyone need a 3-bar?

the 3bar gives less resolution, and you probably did not need it. you still need the right scale and offset for any map sensor. e.g. these are the GM settings for hp tuners....

GM 1 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 94.43
MAP Sensor Offset: 10.34

GM 2 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 207.66
MAP Sensor Offset: 9

GM 2.5 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 244.68 kPa
MAP Sensor Offset: 10.21 kPa

GM 3 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 329.41
MAP Sensor Offset: -6.35

GM 3.3 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 333.33
MAP Sensor Offset: 33.33

So you should be able to get it to fire and take the pedal without the finer resolution.

[Mblizzard]

Yup, it's a matter of resolution.

If any MAP sensor give you say 100 'steps' or readings, then a 3bar MAP sensor will give you 33 steps for NA and 66 steps you don't ever use.
A 1bar MAP will let you use the whole 100 steps for NA.

It's more righter more of the times.

Good point.

Ordered.

Anyone need a 3-bar?

the 3bar gives less resolution, and you probably did not need it. you still need the right scale and offset for any map sensor. e.g. these are the GM settings for hp tuners....

GM 1 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 94.43
MAP Sensor Offset: 10.34

GM 2 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 207.66
MAP Sensor Offset: 9

GM 2.5 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 244.68 kPa
MAP Sensor Offset: 10.21 kPa

GM 3 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 329.41
MAP Sensor Offset: -6.35

GM 3.3 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 333.33
MAP Sensor Offset: 33.33

So you should be able to get it to fire and take the pedal without the finer resolution.

I always thought the MAP readings were a bit "vague" at times. Ran well and responded well to changes in tune but having better resolution in the engine operating range has to be better.

Tuner Stuidiods has slightly different values built in.

[mb123]

Yup, it's a matter of resolution.

If any MAP sensor give you say 100 'steps' or readings, then a 3bar MAP sensor will give you 33 steps for NA and 66 steps you don't ever use.
A 1bar MAP will let you use the whole 100 steps for NA.

It's more righter more of the times.

Good point.

Ordered.

Anyone need a 3-bar?

Whst is tuner studio asking for? Which 3 bar do you have?
the 3bar gives less resolution, and you probably did not need it. you still need the right scale and offset for any map sensor. e.g. these are the GM settings for hp tuners....

GM 1 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 94.43
MAP Sensor Offset: 10.34

GM 2 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 207.66
MAP Sensor Offset: 9

GM 2.5 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 244.68 kPa
MAP Sensor Offset: 10.21 kPa

GM 3 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 329.41
MAP Sensor Offset: -6.35

GM 3.3 bar map sensor Linear and offsets for HPtuners software
MAP Sensor Linear: 333.33
MAP Sensor Offset: 33.33

So you should be able to get it to fire and take the pedal without the finer resolution.

I always thought the MAP readings were a bit "vague" at times. Ran well and responded well to changes in tune but having better resolution in the engine operating range has to be better.

Tuner Stuidiods has slightly different values built in.

[Mblizzard]

OK should be a good weekend. Going to change over to the 1 BAR MAP and to controlling the timing with the ECU!

I am going to simple way first.

However I was just wondering if I am missing something in Tuner Studios regarding IGNOUT2.

As indicated in the setting below there is a place to select IGN 1 but there is nothing about 2.



Does the ECU just "know" when to fire the other bank ore is there a setting I have enable?

[Mblizzard]

Just went through configuring a MicroSquirt brain running MS2E firmware and the trigger offset (Trigger #1 Angle) settings are calculated differently between the two firmwares.

MicroSquirt 3.83 firmware would end up being around 290° as mentioned above.

but...
Mike is running the MS2E firmware and the angle for that is around 60°.

Quick question McMarK. I am assuming this photo is at TDC?

[JamesM]

OK should be a good weekend. Going to change over to the 1 BAR MAP and to controlling the timing with the ECU!

I am going to simple way first.

However I was just wondering if I am missing something in Tuner Studios regarding IGNOUT2.

As indicated in the setting below there is a place to select IGN 1 but there is nothing about 2.



Does the ECU just "know" when to fire the other bank ore is there a setting I have enable?

I think once you run it you will realize you don't need anything more than the simple way. Its already so much more than what the stock system was and the less hardware and wiring to mess with the better.

Other than the settings for your trigger wheel (which you need to confirm with Mark given its his wheel) your output settings look good for that coil. With "number of coils" set to "wasted spark" IGNOUT 2 is enabled automatically. I don't believe the secondary output channel is customizable in software. Yes the ECU knows which bank to fire as long as you have the missing tooth angle set correctly so it knows where TDC for cylinder 1 is.

Be sure you check the tooth angle setting with a timing light once it is going. When running fuel only angle doesn't matter only engine speed, so it could be set completely wrong but working fine until you try and fire a spark with it.

[Mblizzard]

Well this cant be good. Did a temporary wrire in of the coil and plugs for testing.

F$%king started first time! Smooth great idle and all seems good. I must rip it out and break something so it will be harder! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I am confused when I am not banging my head on the wall. Pretty amazed at the ease of the conversion.

Will have to get a dizzy block off from some where McMark?

Checked time with light and it seemed close. Will have to mount up everything and put the actual coil wire connector on when it comes in.

Anyone got an existing mounting bracket for the tower coil?

Idle is too high now as I think my existing throttle body was designed to have negative advance at idle. Anyone know a solution other than plugging the small hole in the throttle plate.

I guess i can plug in negative advance into the ignition table at idle speeds? Throughly checked for vacuum leaks and have none and was able to idle great using the negative advance settings on the 123 dizzy.

[Mblizzard]

Crap I like this! Plugged in -10 advance at the idle MAP and speed and instant 950 RPM!

Did not turn a single bolt on a dizzy or get out the timing light. Just used my button finger.

Not sure if that is the right way to address the problem but it works.

If you ever consider doing this the Bluetooth is a must. I think the Bluetooth unit was like $60 and I am using a $100 android tablet most of the time to make changes with MSDroid. Very nice. This set up has saved me far more time than the $160 it cost.

[Matty900]

Crap I like this! Plugged in -10 advance at the idle MAP and speed and instant 950 RPM!

Did not turn a single bolt on a dizzy or get out the timing light. Just used my button finger.

Not sure if that is the right way to address the problem but it works.

If you ever consider doing this the Bluetooth is a must. I think the Bluetooth unit was like $60 and I am using a $100 android tablet most of the time to make changes with MSDroid. Very nice. This set up has saved me far more time than the $160 it cost.

Nice work Mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) I'm watching your thread very closely as I intend to do the microsquirt soon. Have to save some pennies up first. So maybe February? So that means you're going to come out and get it dialed in for me right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[Mblizzard]

Crap I like this! Plugged in -10 advance at the idle MAP and speed and instant 950 RPM!

Did not turn a single bolt on a dizzy or get out the timing light. Just used my button finger.

Not sure if that is the right way to address the problem but it works.

If you ever consider doing this the Bluetooth is a must. I think the Bluetooth unit was like $60 and I am using a $100 android tablet most of the time to make changes with MSDroid. Very nice. This set up has saved me far more time than the $160 it cost.

Nice work Mike (IMG:style_emoticons/default/first.gif) I'm watching your thread very closely as I intend to do the microsquirt soon. Have to save some pennies up first. So maybe February? So that means you're going to come out and get it dialed in for me right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Love Oregon so that is possible. Yes I think this can be done fairl cheaply and I kind of got away from that but the reality is that other than the ECU so many of the parts are vet cheap. I got the coil for $18 and just got a 1 bar map for $20. I will work on getting a parts list and cost together.

[JamesM]

Crap I like this! Plugged in -10 advance at the idle MAP and speed and instant 950 RPM!

Did not turn a single bolt on a dizzy or get out the timing light. Just used my button finger.

Not sure if that is the right way to address the problem but it works.

If you ever consider doing this the Bluetooth is a must. I think the Bluetooth unit was like $60 and I am using a $100 android tablet most of the time to make changes with MSDroid. Very nice. This set up has saved me far more time than the $160 it cost.

You are idling at 10 deg after TDC? If so something aint right.

Before you do anything else tuning wise you need sanity check your trigger wheel settings with a timing light. Temporarily enable fixed advance from the wheel decoder page and set it to whatever your timing mark on the fan is at, or if you have an adjustable timing light you can mark TDC on the fan and set the fixed timing to whatever you have your timing light adjusted to. If its off you need to adjust your missing tooth angle to correct it. It should be more than close, with the setup you have it should be dead on, rock solid like nothing you have ever seen on a 914. Be absolutely sure you know what the markings on your fan are at, verify against the flywheel TDC mark.

Once you are absolutely sure the timing displayed in Megasquirt matches what you are actually getting you want to adjust your timing at idle to obtain the maximum manifold vacuum and then retard it a few degrees from there. This will give you the strongest idle and best off idle throttle response. Your idle is probably going be somewhere in the 8-15 deg BTDC range setting it like this. If you cant get the idle speed down with the timing set in this manner then you have other issues that need to be addressed. Dont adjust your timing to bring down your idle. You don't want to be idling 10 deg ATDC this will cause your exhaust (and most likely heads) to run hot as well as give you a weaker idle and sub par off idle response.

Timing is the most critical thing to get correct. In addition to possibly damaging your engine if you get it wrong, getting it correct and dialed in is where you are going to see the performance gains.

If your throttle body is stock and unmodified check you Aux Air regulator, and PCV. whenever i see an idle that cant be adjusted down on a car with a stock intake setup its usually one of those two things is broken/stuck open. You should have no problem adjusting idle speed properly with 8-15 deg advance if everything is working correctly.

Also, remember you will need to re-tune your fuel map once your timing table is set. Changes to the timing impact the engines efficiency/fuel needs.

[JamesM]

Almost forgot

Will have to get a dizzy block off from some where McMark?

http://thedubshop.goodsie.com/hex-distributor-plug

They have a vented plug with an AN fitting as well if you wanted to go that route for extra case venting.

thedubshop has pretty much everything you would need when it comes to Megasquirting VWs/914s. Best to not browse around on that site to much otherwise you start getting ideas...

[McMark]

You've already passed the need, but yes, my picture is a TDC (roughly).

I think I still have your address. I'll send you a block off plug.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) with James, confirm the timing by enabling FIXED TIMING. That's CRITICAL. Do nothing else, until the laptop/computer and what you see with the timing light matches.

Also, as James mentioned, you may have air leaks in your intake system if the idle stays high once the timing is correct. You should be around 12degrees BTDC by the way. If your idle remains high, start checking for leaks.

Vacuum based injection (MAP-systems or D-Jet) doesn't have a problem with air leaks. Air leaks change the manifold vacuum and the FI compensates for the extra air because of that change in vacuum. Newer FI will run lean if there are air leaks. Not MAP/D-Jet, they just use the air and you notice a high-idle issue.

This is applicable to anyone running D-Jet or MAP-based FI: If you can't kill the engine by closing the idle bypass screw on the throttle body, then you have air leaks.

[Mblizzard]

Crap I like this! Plugged in -10 advance at the idle MAP and speed and instant 950 RPM!

Did not turn a single bolt on a dizzy or get out the timing light. Just used my button finger.

Not sure if that is the right way to address the problem but it works.

If you ever consider doing this the Bluetooth is a must. I think the Bluetooth unit was like $60 and I am using a $100 android tablet most of the time to make changes with MSDroid. Very nice. This set up has saved me far more time than the $160 it cost.

You are idling at 10 deg after TDC? If so something aint right.

Before you do anything else tuning wise you need sanity check your trigger wheel settings with a timing light. Temporarily enable fixed advance from the wheel decoder page and set it to whatever your timing mark on the fan is at, or if you have an adjustable timing light you can mark TDC on the fan and set the fixed timing to whatever you have your timing light adjusted to. If its off you need to adjust your missing tooth angle to correct it. It should be more than close, with the setup you have it should be dead on, rock solid like nothing you have ever seen on a 914. Be absolutely sure you know what the markings on your fan are at, verify against the flywheel TDC mark.

Once you are absolutely sure the timing displayed in Megasquirt matches what you are actually getting you want to adjust your timing at idle to obtain the maximum manifold vacuum and then retard it a few degrees from there. This will give you the strongest idle and best off idle throttle response. Your idle is probably going be somewhere in the 8-15 deg BTDC range setting it like this. If you cant get the idle speed down with the timing set in this manner then you have other issues that need to be addressed. Dont adjust your timing to bring down your idle. You don't want to be idling 10 deg ATDC this will cause your exhaust (and most likely heads) to run hot as well as give you a weaker idle and sub par off idle response.

Timing is the most critical thing to get correct. In addition to possibly damaging your engine if you get it wrong, getting it correct and dialed in is where you are going to see the performance gains.

If your throttle body is stock and unmodified check you Aux Air regulator, and PCV. whenever i see an idle that cant be adjusted down on a car with a stock intake setup its usually one of those two things is broken/stuck open. You should have no problem adjusting idle speed properly with 8-15 deg advance if everything is working correctly.

Also, remember you will need to re-tune your fuel map once your timing table is set. Changes to the timing impact the engines efficiency/fuel needs.

Have to get the coil plug harness in as it is just a temp setup for testing the electrical part. Did brief check admittedly not extensive of the timing and it seemed to be very close. Changed table at idle to 0 advance and saw only the TDC marking. Will follow your check process.

No AAR or PCV. Running case vent and head vents to oil catch can and then to breather. Fairly sure I have no vacuum leaks. I can cover the throttle body and it dies instantly. I have sprayed, checked, and listened countless times and can not find any leaks. That does not change what you stated and I do need to verify the timing further and recheck for leaks.

Will do that and report back.