1973 914 2.0 with only 5894 miles "shown" Options

[JamesM]

I cant stop looking at this mess now

Quality job right here...

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

yup wiped out from the right side, pulled back out as best as they could, wheel well clip, fender installed improperly, (wide gap) wrinkling and distortion remain in the front trunk area. Also who would replace carpets in a car with only 5000 miles on it?

Bueller . . . Bueller . . . . Anyone?




Yeah . . . totally unmolested.

I guess it's really saying something when the scamming has ramped up to this level.

The driver side corner of my car was clipped long ago before I bought it with crappy lap welding to boot (still needs to be fixed as of 2022). It was hidden far better than this.

Driver side appears to have a slight buckling / kink from the hit too.



Don't get me started on the "unmolested" addition of gas struts to the rear deck lid with an angle iron bracket. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

I feel slimey just having read the listing. Gotta go take a shower . . .

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

gone are the days when everyone poopooed me for thinking 914 were worth so much.

[JamesM]

yup wiped out from the right side, pulled back out as best as they could, wheel well clip, fender installed improperly, (wide gap) wrinkling and distortion remain in the front trunk area. Also who would replace carpets in a car with only 5000 miles on it?

You know, I have no problem with 914s that have been damaged/repaired, every one i have ever owned has been to some extent.

But trying to pass it off on an unsuspecting buyer as "unmolested" and "arguably the best in the world" along with forging documents and VIN discrepancies I take issue with. If this isn't outright criminal it sure feels close.

[nathanxnathan]

Wow, I hadnt seen the BAT ad previously but now that I have I am moving my opinion on this car from "misleading" to "outright fraud"

Way to much fishy crap with that "Dick Barbour window sticker" not the least of which being im pretty sure Dick didnt have access to a time machine to source a laser printer to produce window stickers with.

Would love to have that paper in my had to take a close look, but as someone that spent part of my life working in both printer development and forgery investigations, this sure looks like a load of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) to me from here.

The taking a candle to the corners of the paper to make it look old is a good try though.

I can only assume the current owner realized its level of fakeness which is why it isnt included in the latest ad.

I was thinking the same about the owners club of southern California letter — looks like it's printed on a laser printer in Times New Roman. Criminal that someone would go to the trouble of creating a fake history for this car.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.diamondmotorworks.com-21899-1659818205.1.jpg)

[wonkipop]

Wow, I hadnt seen the BAT ad previously but now that I have I am moving my opinion on this car from "misleading" to "outright fraud"

Way to much fishy crap with that "Dick Barbour window sticker" not the least of which being im pretty sure Dick didnt have access to a time machine to source a laser printer to produce window stickers with.

Would love to have that paper in my had to take a close look, but as someone that spent part of my life working in both printer development and forgery investigations, this sure looks like a load of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) to me from here.

The taking a candle to the corners of the paper to make it look old is a good try though.

I can only assume the current owner realized its level of fakeness which is why it isnt included in the latest ad.

I was thinking the same about the owners club of southern California letter — looks like it's printed on a laser printer in Times New Roman. Criminal that someone would go to the trouble of creating a fake history for this car.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.diamondmotorworks.com-21899-1659818205.1.jpg)

yep
was a world of ollivetti typewriters back then.

interesting about the dick barbour porsche thing.

can understand it would be a replacement bursch exhaust when restored.
but that the window ad is fake. real interesting.

on + side current seller is not trying to hide front right corner replacement.
(or more total front replacement???)
conveniently concealed in older BAT ad by not going there with photos.

what is most amusing is that pebble beach organisers didn't have a clue back in 99?

excellent sleuthing gentlemen. it would have taken me about another 5 days to work out what you guys have noticed. i've just remembered we did not get a photocopier at university until i was in second year. let me think. ----1979? whoever did the letter was using the old cut and paste. guess he didn't have photoshop on his 486 in 1999.

[wonkipop]

gone are the days when everyone poopooed me for thinking 914 were worth so much.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

well they weren't. for years.
just sad one-eyed enthusiasts like you and the rest of us thought they were good.

sadly i am nearly as old as you so both you and i can recall there was a brief run on 914s back in the late 80s when they started getting talked up.

then came the recession of the early 90s.

i hope the frenzy on 914s for the last couple of years is not a sign again? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[wonkipop]

I cant stop looking at this mess now

Quality job right here...

once you see it you can't stop looking. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

looks like some kind of seal wandering around in there trying to deal with the curvature mismatch. the drilled hole is unique got to say.

i remember the green crayfords car down here had the obligatory "update" reflector.
i knew the second owner. the first thing he did was get rid of it. underneath was the beautiful european VW-Porsche badge. in the case of that car the rear trunk had a cable release that routed out through the rear bumper just above the number plate.
not exactly a secure storage area. the first owner in sydney had it done some time in the 70s.

[JamesM]

on + side current seller is not trying to hide front right corner replacement.
(or more total front replacement???)
conveniently concealed in older BAT ad by not going there with photos.

Im wondering if they just didn't notice it as they did seem to strategically leave out a lot of other standard shots (that were in the BAT auction) that give away the history/condition of the car. (battery tray shots from the BAT auction showing clear overspray and weld repairs to the rear trunk hinge piviot, anything showing the size of the engine that was also not mentioned in the ad, etc)

Given their careful wording in the ad and selective representation of the car in the photos I was curious if the dealer themselves were involved in the initial forgery or if they are just passing along a bad deal...

So my wife reached out to them with interest in the car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Long story sort still dont know if they are part of the fraud or just got caught in a bad deal, but they do seem to be very careful about directly incriminating themselves while at the same time hiding the reality of this car. They answered my wifes first question about the motor size and did state it to be a 1.7 but follow up questions around condition/history and they just outright stopped talking to her.

Notice how they dont directly state anything in the ad text itself. rather just post pictures of (most likely fake documents) of someone else saying how original and amazing the car is. SUPER fishy

i suspect they are looking to drop this on a sucker sight unseen who doesent ask questions.

what is most amusing is that pebble beach organisers didn't have a clue back in 99?

Given all the other BS and forgery surrounding this car I have to wonder the legitimacy of that claim as well. Also worth noting only the BAT ad states:

"The seller reports that the car was invited to participate in the 1999 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, and a badge affixed to the dashboard is depicted above."

Which again was just the statement from the seller and the current seller doesn't mention that at all. Also that was 23 years ago, the car could have been in perfect condition back then? Who knows. My guess though is that the badge on the dash is just more added flair to try and represent this car as something it is not.

because they dont seem super hard to come by
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204015680353?hash=...%3ABFBMhou41M5g


Unless someone out there has documentation or photographic evidence of the car being there. I was unable to find anything to substantiate the claim.

[SirAndy]

yup wiped out from the right side, pulled back out as best as they could, wheel well clip, fender installed improperly, (wide gap) wrinkling and distortion remain in the front trunk area.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)

[wonkipop]

@JamesM

is that another fake document you can see underneath the dick barbour cigarette burn tortured window sticker?

detail from one of the BAT images previous sale.
meant to be Porsche + Audi order/sales form for car originally?




they should look like this?





fake order form would be interesting.
just picked up something remembering our 74 1.8 research.
in 74 you could get the factory console with gauges and you could get fuchs wheels on your 1.8. but it was additional equipment - special order.
esp the console because it involved installing the sender plate on the 1.8 engine which did not come equipped with the sensor plate + wiring like all 2.0 engines.
the few i found had sales documentation showing it was a factory placed order.
also the engines seemed to have a different stamped paint number on the tin when they were console cars.

i imagine it was the same in 73 if you bought a 1.7. slightly bigger deal to get a console car from the dealer. you could aftermarket it of course. but the order sales form would specify that equipment as on car to start with.

EDIT
the bit of wiring i am talking about is the wire installed on engine from sensor up behind fan casting. the 1.8s did have the tunnel wiring. but that bit of wiring on the engine along with the sensor made a console on a 1.8 a bigger deal than on the 2.0.

[wonkipop]

@JamesM

its pretty hard to find out anything about pebble beach concours 1999 on a search.

early enough not to end up instagramed everywhere.

did all my usual tricks and zero came up.
just some documentation of class winners.
which this car was not. unsurprisingly.

[SirAndy]

"The five-digit odometer shows 5,400 miles, which is most likely 105k miles based upon overall condition"

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...mp;viewid=20321

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[JamesM]

I was wondering what that was and thought it very curious that they never showed a close up of it, even in the BAT auction.

given everything else my guess would be yes.

@JamesM

is that another fake document you can see underneath the dick barbour cigarette burn tortured window sticker?

detail from one of the BAT images previous sale.
meant to be Porsche + Audi order/sales form for car originally?




they should look like this?

[wonkipop]

@JamesM

the guy who probably has it still picked it up on BAT last year.
i thought it was a bit further back in time.
only reason i recalled the BAT sale was i recognized it from 1.8 research last year trawling through stuff there.

he did a gazump on bidders right at the end out of nowhere.
he has had a go at about a million VW auctions on BAT - mostly unsuccessful.

the guy who sold it, if his statements are to be believed had it since 2004.
he picked it up at an auction in texas.
i figured out from very blurry catalogue appearing in one of dealers photos that it was at a Kruse Auction.

Kruse collapsed in 2010 in aftermath of GFC.

it had belonged to another owner between 1999 and 2004 according to BAT seller last year. that owner purchased from RM auctions after pebble beach 99.
how true that bit would be ---who knows?

i wanted to try and find out how much was paid for it at kruse auction.
couldn't dig out info that obscure from that far back.
sort of surprised but then again kruse collapsed.
RM bought them out.

current owner knows enough not to go near BAT again so soon?
comments section has arced up a lot with some names i recognize from here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
he'd get "murdered" with it.
but he knows he got dudded and is trying to offload it?

i think you are right about the pebble beach plaque.
someone has picked one up and screwed it on.

you could get away with a fair bit back in 2004, even more in 99.
googles come a long way since back then.

[wonkipop]

additionally can't find out anything about george duncan associated with porsche owners association of southern california.
normally you can throw that stuff up even that far back in time.

i get a whole bunch of different names with the association at that time.

maybe someone here old enough knows.

@JamesM
you alluded to verging on criminality not disclosing crash damage.
the documents with the car might get into that territory?
possible hoax dates back two decades?


EDIT
a clue.
amongst displayed documents.
looks to me like mid engined views (914 owners association newsletter) that has lost its cover.
dates from 2000 (stoddard ad)?
maybe this car has a story about it or pebble beach.
dates would be right.
if anyone has those from that time its probably in there?

[jrmdir]

Yes, that's not a '73 speedo - should be 150MPH. Also, FWIW, '73s had silver PORSCHE lettering on the engine grille.

I was hesitant to think someone went to all the trouble to forge documents, but there's just too much wrong - including the way "Dick Barbour" was always inserted with a different font - even in the welcome letter. So George Duncan had so many new members to welcome (in 1973) that he pre-typed a supply of welcome letters and had them on hand to add names & dates? Using a different typewriter. Also, suspicious amount of extra info re: the Chrome Plated card holder and where you might put it.

But what finally convinced me is the proportional spacing.



Ron

[nathanxnathan]

ou might put it.

But what finally convinced me is the proportional spacing.

Ron

Spacing of modern fonts, they call it "hinting" where the font knows how close to put certain letters together.

There's an even more telling hint in your example, when an "f" and an "i' are typed next to each other the font will replace the 2 glyphs with a "smart ligature" which is a single character so the tip of the "f" sort of meshes with the dot of the "i". A typewriter would not do this.

Another tell is the double spaces between sentences. With a typewriter you would indeed have to put 2 spaces after a period to make it look right. A modern font, using hinting, automatically puts a larger space after a period. A lot of people put the 2 spaces in still — so many people that even young people that never used a typewriter think it's correct to do so. It ends up looking like there are 3 spaces (as a typewriter would make them) between sentences.

I'm a graphic designer by trade, and it strikes me as glaringly obvious that it's not legit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[aturboman]

Isn't that a 120mph 72 or older speedo?

Yes, and lots of other inconsistencies for a 1973.

[wonkipop]

Isn't that a 120mph 72 or older speedo?

Yes, and lots of other inconsistencies for a 1973.

not least being dick barbour speciality package item - rear reflector.

the rear reflector does not appear as a porsche feature until the 74MY G series 911.
commencing production 08/73.

alleged d b window sticker is dated 2/73.
the car is a 04/73.

somehow its a predated update? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)