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> Of al the 911 brakes which were the best?, and then decreasing in desireability...
Dr. Roger
post Nov 30 2005, 11:33 AM
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911 SC? #1

I know so little 'bout brakes....

Also best struts?

I think Koni adjustables but how bout Bilsteins?

Mucho thanks guys,
Roger
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horizontally-opposed
post Nov 30 2005, 12:10 PM
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Without question, the latest PCCBs. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif)

For track use, your results may vary. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

For 914 use, your results may REALLY vary. Does it need to look period correct? The closest thing there that is still a truly amazing brake is probably 917 brakes or (far more reasonably) the original 911 Turbo four-pot calipers adapted from them.

But I, too, am curious though: Between 911M, 911S, 911 SC, and Carrera 3.2...?

Prevailing wisdom?

pete
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Eric_Shea
post Nov 30 2005, 12:47 PM
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Too many variables left out of the mix.

The following are my opinions based upon engineered systems:

M-Caliper and Boge Strut - Good for stock 914's through 150hp. Replace the P-valve with a T-Fitting -or- replace the 914-4 rear caliper with a 914-6 rear caliper (t-fitting is $9.00 and 914-6 calipers are more like $900) This works for 914-6 applications and basic 911's up to 140hp.

S-Caliper/A-Caliper (SC) and Related Strut - Good for stock 914's through 240hp. Replace the P-Valve with a T-Fitting and possibly use a vented rear rotor. Stock rear brakes are marginal at this point. Consider using a rear M-Caliper and a different handbrake assembly. Works for 911S, 911RS and the first 930 Turbo (240hp).

Carrera 3.2 and Related Strut - As above but I would definitly use a larger rear and vented rotor.

Early 930 (meaning the specific 930 caliper which is noted as the 917-style) - Go with the entire system and find a handbrake alternative.

Beyond those... as above for the 930 (917-style).

Weight in with your other caliper choices (but he did say 911). I think Mueller has a formula for piston size. That's what I would go with if you wanted to do a mix and match.
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Aaron Cox
post Nov 30 2005, 12:49 PM
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in my experience...,
M's with an aggresive pad are way more than adequate. about the stock size pad of a 914.....
S and A calipers. bigger pad sizes. S = aluminum. A's = steel


Boxster Monoblocks. Can be retrofittd to 3" and 3.5" struts.
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Dr. Roger
post Nov 30 2005, 01:39 PM
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Wow, thanks guys. =-)

Is there an easy way to identify the aluminum and steel calipers?

What year were they manufactured?

As you guys know, i'm running that pumped up 355 cid SBC and in my limited road time got the brakes to smokin real quick. =-))))

I swear this group rocks. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)
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Aaron Cox
post Nov 30 2005, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Nov 30 2005, 12:39 PM)
Wow, thanks guys. =-)

Is there an easy way to identify the aluminum and steel calipers?

What year were they manufactured?

I swear this group rocks. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

aluminum S calipers have an externl hardline that connects the caliper halves together....

years? 67?-74? not sure. oh yeah. they are aluminum colored (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)
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horizontally-opposed
post Nov 30 2005, 02:25 PM
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Eric,

What's your view on caliper flex with the S calipers...?
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Andyrew
post Nov 30 2005, 02:43 PM
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Why not 944 turbo calipers?

Those rock...

4 piston, bit pads...

cheap as dirt (250 in the classifieds right now...
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Eric_Shea
post Nov 30 2005, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE
Is there an easy way to identify the aluminum and steel calipers?


Yes Sir Mr. Sweetbuns...

Aluminum calipers are made of aluminum. Steel calipers are made from steel. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/av-943.gif)

(or what AA-ron said)

Pete... I've never felt it but others have. I'll bet they flex some. But, it seemed to work for LeMans winning GT's, and 908's and, and, and... I've seen pads that are worn funny but that was strickly due to pin and spring issues not flex.

I always like to think about how our stock little cars could be driven by Vic Elford or Brian Redmond. Do we really need all this $hit or might some seat time do the trick? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

I'd love to hand one of those cats the keys to my car and go along for a thrill ride. I'd be willing to bet I'd come back feeling quite inadequate (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/pray.gif)
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Eric_Shea
post Nov 30 2005, 02:57 PM
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Also... before we get too far into this. If you plan to go beyond the first M-Caliper system I mentioned, I would recommend you get more tire patch on the ground. Meaning; possibly flares, larger wheels, different (race) compounds...

917 brakes aren't going to stop you any sooner than 914 brakes if you've got the same contact patch. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)
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horizontally-opposed
post Nov 30 2005, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (Eric_Shea @ Nov 30 2005, 12:51 PM)
Do we really need all this $hit or might some seat time do the trick? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

Well, I keep telling readers that, 99.99 percent of the time, the slowest component in any Porsche is its driver.

That said, we all love the technology and making educated choices. I put 911M calipers on the front of my 914 13 years ago and they have been all the brakes I've needed.

But I've always been interested in the unsprung weight advantages of the S calipers. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif)

But I doubt that small changes in unsprung weight are noticeable by the driver -- even a sensitive one. Walter Rohrl says he doesn't think he could tell the difference between a GT3 with PCCBs and one with steel brakes from behind the wheel -- and that's ELEVEN pounds per corner!

So yep, it can get pretty academic and I agree -- $3,000 spent on instruction from a David Murry is a hell of a lot better than $3000 spent on brakes for one car. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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horizontally-opposed
post Nov 30 2005, 03:00 PM
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Oh yeah, and how much speed does that trick "coating" on your rebuilt calipers add? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
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J P Stein
post Nov 30 2005, 03:00 PM
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If I had another body to assist, I could go check for flex right now.
I can hear & feel them flex, just dunno how much.
If you want a high hard pedal,you prolly wanna go to something else.....but their lightness gets my vote. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
I had to listen to Britian whine about it after he drove my car.
He'd bitch if ya hung him with a new rope.
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Eric_Shea
post Nov 30 2005, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE
Oh yeah, and how much speed does that trick "coating" on your rebuilt calipers add?


I did a set for Redmond. He put them on his 914-6 and said he got an extra .02316 of a second at the "Ring" with them! Now Rohrl wants a set... those guys are all so damned competitive! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/w00t.gif)
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SLITS
post Nov 30 2005, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Nov 30 2005, 12:41 PM)
QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Nov 30 2005, 12:39 PM)
Wow, thanks guys. =-)  

Is there an easy way to identify the aluminum and steel calipers?

What year were they manufactured?

I swear this group rocks.   (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)  :D

aluminum S calipers have an externl hardline that connects the caliper halves together....

years? 67?-74? not sure. oh yeah. they are aluminum colored (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)

External line....yes

Color.....gold anodized

Yeh...I've got a set under my desk, along with SCs, Brembo Monoblocks, Brembo regular, etc...............

I to tired to shoot images..so suffer (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/tongue.gif)
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jhadler
post Nov 30 2005, 03:20 PM
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Like has been said before, it all depends on your application.

Personally, I think the stock brakes have an underserved reputation. A good set of well-built calipers, a good set of pads, a good master cylinder, and some fresh brake lines will work extreemely well. And if you have enough clamping force to lock up your tires, you have enough brake. After that, the issues that come up are more complicated. Like, brake modulation and heat management. The first is generally solved first by the driver, then by pad and master cylinder selection. The second can be controlled by ducting. Amazing what a little ducting can do at the track...

If you've got a built race car, and you plan on hauling the car down from 100+mph often and in quick succession, then the need for big brakes becomes more real. But for street applications, I find the stock brakes can be made to work just fine.

Remember, the car doesn't weigh much. The big ol' 4 pot brembos and the like were needed for heavier cars that were routinely needing to slow down from 120+ mph.

-Josh2
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Britain Smith
post Nov 30 2005, 03:21 PM
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QUOTE (J P Stein @ Nov 30 2005, 02:00 PM)
If I had another body to assist, I could go check for flex right now.
I can hear & feel them flex, just dunno how much.
If you want a high hard pedal,you prolly wanna go to something else.....but their lightness gets my vote. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)
I had to listen to Britian whine about it after he drove my car.
He'd bitch if ya hung him with a new rope.

Hey now... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/flipa.gif)

I didn't think that I would be able to tell a difference, but it is very noticable under hard braking with a lot of speed. Now that I know about the differences in feel, next time I drive JP's car I will be able to adjust in advance...that is if he lets me drive it again. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

-Britain
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Eric_Shea
post Nov 30 2005, 04:22 PM
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It's probably those super-duper heavy duty bolts you have in yours (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
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SirAndy
post Nov 30 2005, 04:25 PM
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QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Nov 30 2005, 10:33 AM)
I know so little 'bout brakes....

i've got mid '80s carrera on all 4 corners ...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif) Andy
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Jeffs9146
post Nov 30 2005, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Nov 30 2005, 12:41 PM)
QUOTE (rogergrubb @ Nov 30 2005, 12:39 PM)
Wow, thanks guys. =-)  

Is there an easy way to identify the aluminum and steel calipers?

What year were they manufactured?

I swear this group rocks.     (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)  

aluminum S calipers have an externl hardline that connects the caliper halves together....

years? 67?-74? not sure. oh yeah. they are aluminum colored  


Used a magnet.....Aluminum (nonstick) Steel (Stick) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif)

Year = What car did you take them off?? Sorry JK

PS: Edited due to Spelling errors a=s? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/headbang.gif)
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