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> Carbs on a completely stock 2.0L, does it work
DanT
post Jan 2 2006, 06:59 PM
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That was the point of my initial query. do you gain anything by switching to carbs with a totally stock motor?
I guess the general feeling is that unless you change the cam you aren't going to gain any performance or drivability. And probably lose some MPG. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)
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dmenche914
post Jan 2 2006, 07:26 PM
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expereince with my freinds stock 1.7 was he had problems with the FI (electrical problems with old, bad wires) He switched to carbs, and got horrible mileage, a higher top end, with a big loss in botom end power. After a while i convinced him to fix the FI, we did a rebuild of the harness, tested all components, and put it back on, the car ran great, mileage went back up to about 30 mpg, and it had power at low rpm again.

No we did not optimize the carbs, maybe with re-jetting and such some problems could have been solved, but fixing the FI was easier, cheaper, and gave better results on a stock 1.7 engine. good luck
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MarkV
post Jan 2 2006, 07:56 PM
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I think the only gain in the carbs vs Djet debate is reliabilty. My car is a 2056 with DRLA 40's on it with a stock replacement Web cam. It runs great and it is very reliable. I spent some time sorting out jets and vent size and sure it sputters on cold start but once it is warmed up it runs great.

I have all of the parts to convert it back to Djet but I fear 30 year old rudimentary injection reliability problems. How many posts are there about whats wrong with my Djet?

"It won't idle"

"It wont start"

"It bucks & misses"

"Where can I get a new MPS"

"It stranded me"

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dead horse.gif)


I am still waiting for Kitcarson.
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bd1308
post Jan 2 2006, 08:04 PM
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well the deal with D-jet is that most systems are 30 years old. It's indeed a very well designed system, and for a insanely simple system, it works very well. Problems arise when the engine is upgraded, or when the MPS diapragm breaks...other than that it works well for stockish engines....

b
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ws91420
post Jan 2 2006, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE (Aaron Cox @ Jan 2 2006, 07:56 PM)


why do you want to ditch FI on a stock motor???? you wont *GAIN* anything without a hot cam.....designed for carbs....


The thing I gained was a running car by switching to carbs w/ stock cam. I dont know for sure if my FI was bad, but it was my descision and I wasnt about to pull the engine apart a second time to put a different cam in. I'll save that for the next rebuild.
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JoeSharp
post Jan 2 2006, 09:43 PM
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Welby's piont is the only point for switching. If your fighting a D- jet, L -jet problem and can't find the source of it carbs are the light and, the way to usage of your teener.
:PRMAGRIN: Joe
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DanT
post Jan 2 2006, 11:10 PM
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Thanks for the replies.
This is another one of those topics like the 4vs6 debate, evidently.

Carbs have their place in our hobby just like some other mods that some folks make to their cars and others only shake their heads and wonder why!

That is the great thing about these little cars. They have so many ways they can be modded and still be a 914. And as always...to each his own.

I guess a switch to carbs will wait until I rebuild the motor with some hotter internals.
As long as I have a stock motor and the EFI is functioning, I have seen nothing here to convince me to switch at this time. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Jan 3 2006, 09:18 AM
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Every engine is different..... Honestly I have tested a few engine combos that made MORE power with Carbs.

It's all in the combo.
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Trekkor
post Jan 3 2006, 01:15 PM
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Well there you have it... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)


Jake , just tell us if you can make a stock FOUR run better on Webers than the D-jet. Please. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

thanks


KT
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Gearhead1432
post Jan 3 2006, 01:36 PM
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From what I recall, most wabers are jetted far too rich for smaller fours like a 1.7 up to a 2.0. You can bolt them on and they will run, it will just eat up fuel like it's going out of style.

When optimized I'm willing to bet you can get more power out of the carbs. The power band might be higher but that's okay with me. I like driving at 3.500rpm (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/driving.gif)

Oh yeah, Webers are eye candy too! For me Djet doesn't do very much. Now TPI, that is an awsome looking FI system.

Rob
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Trekkor
post Jan 3 2006, 08:41 PM
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On pg #10 of Haynes, you can see the motors listed and the HP breakdown by cc's.

The 1.8 was available a factory option with dual-single Solex 40's.

Two HP rating's are listed, 76 and 85...who's who?
Differant cam or no?
Was there more than one cam offered on any of the stock motors?

I need to know (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif)


KT
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Tom Perso
post Jan 3 2006, 08:43 PM
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From what I remember, the carb'd motors did have a different cam.

Or, maybe I'm just telling you what you want to hear... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

Tom
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Gearhead1432
post Jan 3 2006, 09:28 PM
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I'm looking at the book. It looks like the EC motor has 7.3:1cr 76hp @ 4800 rpm and the AN, 8.6:1cr 85hp @ 5000rpm

Looks to me like the carbed motor was European only. It reqired 98octane fuel. Acording to haynes the rest is the same... so yes a pair of Little little 1bbl 40mm solexes make considerable more power than the stock Ljet. Valve timing is the same. I realy doubt it has more lift.

There you go, carbs are better... even little ity bity 40mm solexes....lol (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif)

-Rob
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DanT
post Jan 3 2006, 11:13 PM
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Maybe that is the problem, folks are using too large carbs. Especially when they do not have the knowledge or parts to rejet the 40s. Maybe those tiny little Solexs are a better match for our motors than the webers that everyone seems to want or need. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

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Aaron Cox
post Jan 3 2006, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Jan 3 2006, 10:13 PM)
Maybe that is the problem, folks are using too large carbs. Especially when they do not have the knowledge or parts to rejet the 40s. Maybe those tiny little Solexs are a better match for our motors than the webers that everyone seems to want or need. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

its all in the combo according to jake...

like i said. lawrence's 1.7 was PERFECTLY jetted. no stumble stutter etc.... just prolly a mpg or 2 less than djet fi...

its not the carb...its the jetting that gives carbs a bad name....

do it once...do it right

AA
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DanT
post Jan 3 2006, 11:43 PM
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Combination as in which carb not just the jetting. Venturis and jetting, overall flow of air and fuel.
Just like a holley 600 vs a holley 650 on a GTO or Mustang, with a big block.
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Trekkor
post Jan 4 2006, 12:15 AM
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My 2110 VW motor with the dual-single 34 ICT Webers was pretty good when I was a 17 year old.

I was pretty much a "slap it on and go" kind guy back then ( I still am a little bit...ahem (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/dry.gif) ) So no attention to the jetting was paid.
The carbs came off my 1600cc motor.
I had the motor built to short block using the STOCK CAM. I assembled and ran the motor in my Baja bug and then my '62 crew cab for about five thousand miles before I sold it all off. That thing really pulled.

I bought a Ghia with a 1776cc and dual singles. On a Engle 120 cam...Not stock, but fun...Not a 914, so here I am.

Doesn't somebody have the stock FOUR cam data? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

My guess is that they *all* use the same one...My guess. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)


We'll know soon, I'm sure of that.


KT

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TravisNeff
post Jan 4 2006, 12:25 AM
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On my first 914 I had a 2056 with a big cam, 45 dellortos and some heads with big valves, light flywheel and balancing. Carbs were great under most all conditions until I blew the engine up.

I had it rebuilt and the mechanic would only do relatively stock engine. 2056, stock cam, and 36mm dellortos. It ran like complete shit, I worked with him for about 6 months to get it running right and it never did.
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DanT
post Jan 4 2006, 12:49 AM
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so where are we?
Any other ideas?

How about you professionals out there. What has been your experiences along these lines?

If the factory infact, built 914s with EFI and Carbs did they only do the induction or did they make changes internally to make the car more drivable with one or the other?

This must have been a Europe only option. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)
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Trekkor
post Jan 4 2006, 01:02 AM
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