 Carbs on a completely stock 2.0L, does it work |
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| DanT |
  Dec 30 2005, 12:28 AM
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#1
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Going back to the Dark Side!  Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None  |
So there is a lot of difference of opinion.
With a totally stock 2L engine including ignition, cam etc do carbs work effectively? More noticeable power? Drivability? MPG? Worth the hassle? let the games begin! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ar15.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/boldblue.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif) Lets hear it. |
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Replies(80 - 99)
| seanery |
Jan 4 2006, 08:10 AM
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#81
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waiting to rebuild whitey! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 15,852 Joined: 7-January 03 From: Indy Member No.: 100 Region Association: None |
If there is a CR difference of 1.3 between a factory carbed car and a FI one then there is more than just an intake and a pair of carbs difference.
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| r_towle |
Jan 4 2006, 09:28 AM
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#82
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States 
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up until recently, Jake used only carbs on his motors..
Now that he has found a good FI system that he can tune, he loves FI... I think that SirAndy hit the nail on the head... Modern cars use FI because it is more precise and can be specifically tuned for each motor... Djet/Ljet are purpose built and specifically tuned for these motors...no VE changes are acceptable.. Carbs offer some tuning options that you cannot get from djet/ljet. Though there are less and less proffesionals that can tune dual webers correctly, there are lots more of them that can tune a PEFI system perfectly... So, do you do your own work, or do you bring it somewhere to have it tuned? If you like to play, carbs are for you. I put dual 40mm carbs on a 1600 vw motor...it took some time, I worked with the great guys at aircooled.net and the car now runs as good as its gonna... You really need to warm it up, and the MPG suffers on such a small motor.. But, that is what the kid wanted, he likes dual carbs, he loves the sound... Now with the prices of fuel, he wants a FI system... I would say if you have a working FI system, dont change...if you have working carbs or a desire for carbs, go for it...they are fun, they are easy to tune if you get the basic concepts down... Just err on the small side for jets and venturis and you will be alot happier...smaller venturis help alot more than you would think.. Rich |
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| Gearhead1432 |
Jan 4 2006, 06:37 PM
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#83
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Member Group: Members Posts: 129 Joined: 21-December 05 From: Altus, OK Member No.: 5,304 Region Association: None |
The only specs I can find for any 914 cam happens to be the valve timing, which is listed as being the same for all 914 type4s. If any one happens to have better data, by all mean.
Intake opens @ 12* BTDC Intake closes @ 42* ABDC Exhaust opens @ 43* BBDC Exhaust closes @ 4* ATDC |
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| billd |
Jan 4 2006, 06:53 PM
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#84
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Member Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 25-May 05 From: Palo Alto, CA Member No.: 4,145 |
Dan,
I know that Albert's 2.0L was *not* running a stock cam. I'm not sure about his 1.8. Albert told me he was running a webcam in the 2.0. He did not tell me which grind. When I was looking at cams for a carbed 4, I came to the conclusion that a webcam 86b/163 was the cam of choice for autocross (good low-end torque, sacrifice some at the top) and an 86c was the cam of choice for TT (less at the low end, more at the top). ----Bill |
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| Trekkor |
Jan 5 2006, 07:31 PM
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#85
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I'm surprised no one has the cam answer...
All these guru's, pros and builders and nothing? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) Should be pretty simple. Do they all use the same cam or don't they? KT |
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| SirAndy |
Jan 5 2006, 07:38 PM
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#86
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,641 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
that's probably because all the "gurus" have stopped reading this thread a month ago ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif) Andy |
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| Trekkor |
Jan 5 2006, 07:41 PM
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#87
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
It may be one of life's great mysteries (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif)
KT |
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| r_towle |
Jan 5 2006, 07:53 PM
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#88
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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you are stepping into an area that the proffesionals make a living at. The heads and valve train are where the power is on these motors, and as we have all seen, if you have the valves adjusted correctly, your car runs perfect. I would say that there are alot of answers to the same problem... I was reading the ecellence article about an orange 914 with a 2.7 liter /4 that made similar HP and torque to a 2270 All in the heads...bore and stroke are pretty straight forward, but you are asking the same question here that has been asked before and on lots of boards.... If you would like a good answer, I would suggest that you purchase a valve train setup from Jake, you will learn your answer then... Or, buy several grinds and try a few... Rich |
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| DanT |
Jan 5 2006, 07:58 PM
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#89
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
That was not the question.
The question was do factory carb equipped car use the same cam as the EFI cars. If in fact the factory had a carb option. |
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| Aaron Cox |
Jan 5 2006, 07:59 PM
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#90
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Professional Lawn Dart Group: Retired Admin Posts: 24,541 Joined: 1-February 03 From: OC Member No.: 219 Region Association: Southern California |
want it EURO 1.8's had dual solexes? single or dual barrel 40's iirc.... |
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| Trekkor |
Jan 5 2006, 08:16 PM
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#91
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
I'm not asking for trade secrets. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)
Just looking for a simple answer. In the Performance Products catalog you can buy a new stock cam, 70-76 ( no specs given ) If you order an aftermarket grind, the specs are front and center (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) KT |
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| McMark |
Jan 5 2006, 09:59 PM
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#92
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
Tuna's site says that the euro AN case 1.8 come with dual 40s and made 85 hp compared to a US 1.8 with 76 hp, BUT the euro model has 8.6:1 compression and the US model has 7.3:1. Read that however you want. |
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| Bleyseng |
Jan 5 2006, 11:28 PM
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#93
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,034 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
Yep. they had domed 93mm pistons! Jake has a set I think
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| Trekkor |
Jan 5 2006, 11:37 PM
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#94
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I do things... Group: Members Posts: 7,809 Joined: 2-December 03 From: Napa, Ca Member No.: 1,413 Region Association: Northern California |
Either you don't know or don't want to tell... Not to be confused with "don't ask, don't tell" in any way (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ph34r.gif) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/chairfall.gif) KT |
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| McMark |
Jan 6 2006, 12:07 AM
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#95
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914 Freak! Group: Retired Admin Posts: 20,179 Joined: 13-March 03 From: Grand Rapids, MI Member No.: 419 Region Association: None |
I bumped a thread on STF and Jake promised to use his new tool (cam profiler) to reveal all there is to know about stock cams. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smiley_notworthy.gif)
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| DanT |
Jan 6 2006, 12:54 PM
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#96
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
And the answer is?
Drumroll please....... |
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| r_towle |
Jan 6 2006, 01:25 PM
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#97
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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ok, answer to the initial questions... |
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| r_towle |
Jan 6 2006, 01:35 PM
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#98
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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Web cam Stock FI (it is very close to the original)
Lift 426 Duration 262 Duration @.050 224 Grind Number 73 Good overall power for engines with stock fuel-injection. Designed for mechanical lifters. Web cam basic street Cam for carbs 423 270 234 86 Good overall power for carburated mech. street engines. RPM range 2500-5500. The perfect street cam! I would comment that the lift is less for the carbed cam, and the duration is just a tad longer.. 435 290 252 86a Strong mid range and top end for high performance mech. street engines. Valve springs recommended. I am noticing that the lift and duration are considerably more here.. |
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| Jake Raby |
Jan 6 2006, 01:49 PM
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#99
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Engine Surgeon Group: Members Posts: 9,394 Joined: 31-August 03 From: Lost Member No.: 1,095 Region Association: South East States |
The Web cam "Stock" grind is based from a stock bus cam with solid lift.
The new cam doctor will be here in about two weeks and I'll use these stock cams to learn the new software a bit... I'll give ya 5 pages of specs on each cam (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/huh.gif) BTW all those single pattern, non split duration cams catalogged are power robbers and gas burners.... |
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| r_towle |
Jan 6 2006, 02:03 PM
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#100
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,574 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States
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My observation would be that is you wanted to duplicate the "carbed" cam that webcam sell, not jake, then you might be able to do it with different rockers...
You could increase the lift by playing around with those to create a stock engine that works well with carbs...possibly... Rich |
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