 seam welding and rear suspension strengthening, What to do, What I did... |
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| SirAndy |
 Mar 23 2006, 11:27 AM
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#41
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Resident German  Group: Admin Posts: 42,276 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California  |
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif) if you come to the breakfast on sat. i'll let you test-sit my car. the door-brace actually makes it EASIER to get in/out of the car ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy Attached image(s) 
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| Andyrew |
Mar 23 2006, 11:41 AM
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#42
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,380 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California 
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Im sorry, but I will not make a full bar. I want the bar to be somewhat hidden, and I want the old man who drives and rides this car to be able to get in and out of it with ease. I know about sliding on the bar, thats how I get in and out of the turbo race car. I slide on the seat.
Sat im prom tux shopping. Andrew |
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| Andyrew |
Mar 23 2006, 11:54 AM
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#43
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,380 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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measured the sway bars with a dial caliper.
Stock is 6/10 of an inch, Nascar is 7.5/10 of an inch. I would have to say that I think the nascar bar is made of a stronger material than the stock one and which it should be stiffer. At any rate, stiffness also depends on how far the droplinks are from the actual shaft. Which is why im going to drill a hole every 1.5 inches towards the bar on the arm. Should give me quite a bit of adjustability with adjustable droplinks. PS my door brace will be simular to Andy's... just about 2in lower |
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| neo914-6 |
Mar 23 2006, 12:04 PM
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#44
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neo life Group: Members Posts: 5,086 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Willow Glen (San Jose) Member No.: 159 |
Andrew,
Scott told me "Peal" had unique and hidden bracing. Maybe BJ can attest to this. This car is now owned by someone near me who also has a 215 914 V8. |
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| SirAndy |
Mar 23 2006, 12:20 PM
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#45
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,276 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
sliding? how does "sliding" help you getting out of the car ???? *i* was talking about leverage ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy |
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| Andyrew |
Mar 23 2006, 12:23 PM
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#46
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,380 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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Helps getting in andy.
Getting out is just a matter of practice and tecnique (sp?) Felix, I would be interested if the owner could send me some pics, or if you could send me some pics. Thanks |
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| John |
Mar 23 2006, 12:30 PM
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#47
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
Pics please. |
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| SirAndy |
Mar 23 2006, 12:36 PM
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#48
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,276 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
alright, then let me say this one more time ... with a bar like mine, it is actually "easier to get in and out of the car" ... no sliding required ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool_shades.gif) Andy |
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| John |
Mar 23 2006, 12:36 PM
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#49
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member? what's a member? Group: Members Posts: 3,393 Joined: 30-January 04 From: Evansville, IN (SIRPCA) Member No.: 1,615 Region Association: None |
When you guys refer to seam welding, I become rather confused.
When one "seam" welds sheet metal that was spot welded together, does one run a heavy weld at the break (bend) or does one simply weld a bead past the spot welds at the end of the bent "flange". Also when 2 "flanges" meet (along the bottom or top) of the longs, how are these "seam" welded? I am assuming that MIG welders are being used. Typically, when I think of seam welding sheet metal boxes, I think of how the gas tanks were welded (continuous spot welding between two rollers). I need some pics of the "seam" welding. Thanks for some pictorial explanations. |
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| Andyrew |
Mar 23 2006, 12:39 PM
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#50
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,380 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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OK then andy...
When I get home from work, I'll draw you up what I want to do in your angle, and we'll see the difference. There is not much. |
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| Porcharu |
Mar 23 2006, 01:26 PM
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#51
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 27-January 05 From: Campbell, CA Member No.: 3,518 Region Association: Northern California |
That's good to hear. Not good that you crashed tho. |
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| lapuwali |
Mar 23 2006, 02:04 PM
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#52
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Not another one! Group: Benefactors Posts: 4,526 Joined: 1-March 04 From: San Mateo, CA Member No.: 1,743  |
Seam welding is "welding the seams" (between the spot welds). This may help a tad in some highly stressed areas, but only if the original engineering was really bad. It's really popular in the Civic crowd, but I think it's mostly way too much work for way too little gain.
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| andys |
Mar 23 2006, 03:46 PM
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#53
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 21-May 03 From: Valencia, CA Member No.: 721 Region Association: None
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Sir Andy, When you install a cage like the one in your photo, does it not obstruct both the engine lid release knob and the front truck release knob? Pic's? How do you get around this issue? Thanks, Andys |
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| SirAndy |
Mar 23 2006, 05:29 PM
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#54
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 42,276 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
engine lid knob is fine, it clears the cage ... front hood knob has to be turned 90 deg. and shaved on top. no big deal really ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif) Andy |
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| J P Stein |
Mar 23 2006, 06:47 PM
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#55
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
I don't have any good pictures of the welding done on my car.....this one is prolly best. The factory welding(to use the term loosly) in this area is gawd awful. I had to spend hours grinding out the cold lap & porosity....amongst other flaws.
I also welded around the perimiter of the ear & ground it shooth. The same with the arch at the wheel well.....after grinding the ends of the lap even....then ground that smooth. On both of these areas, there were spot welds that blew out the edge of the material. IIRC, most of the rest was more seal welding than anything that would add much strengh.....tho I could be wrong. Unibodies are designed to be assembled using the quickest method that *will suffice*. As to wheather this is the strongest method is for you to decide. This thing sure as hell wasn't designed to cope with what I'm doing to it. Attached thumbnail(s) 
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| TimT |
Mar 23 2006, 07:50 PM
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#56
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retired Group: Members Posts: 4,033 Joined: 18-February 03 From: Wantagh, NY Member No.: 313 |
Not sure I can agree with that. Porsche factory racecars have come seam welded for years. From the 72RS lightweight to the 2003 GT3RS that we own have welded seams. I havent seen a 997 GT3 yet so I cant comment on them, but i tend to think that Porsche will continue this practice. |
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| andys |
Mar 23 2006, 10:22 PM
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#57
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,165 Joined: 21-May 03 From: Valencia, CA Member No.: 721 Region Association: None
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Doesn't the roll bar sit directly in front of the engine lid release? Can you explain? I'm probably going to mock up a cage with PVC pipe, but don't see how I'll be able to pull the knob. Andys |
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| Andyrew |
Mar 23 2006, 10:24 PM
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#58
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Spooling.... Please wait Group: Members Posts: 13,380 Joined: 20-January 03 From: Riverbank, Ca Member No.: 172 Region Association: Northern California
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Just drill another hole and weld another bong 1 inch over...
No biggie. |
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| ChrisFoley |
Mar 24 2006, 05:51 AM
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#59
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,990 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None
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Andy, If you are careful positioning the tube where it welds to the rocker there is room for the handle to be pulled. The roll cage tube should be outboard of the lid release centerline. It may be necessary to shorten the handle 1/4" or so and tap the hole a little deeper. It's close. |
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| Pistachio |
Mar 24 2006, 09:15 AM
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#60
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 7-March 06 From: People's Rebuplik of Kalifornia Member No.: 5,684 |
Re: the dog-ear tube braces
What's the "desired" OD of the tubing? Wall thickness? (.120 or .095) Guess it sort of depends on how much stress you think is going on there, but I've run across pics of guys doing semi-tube frames that looks like they're using 1.75" OD, & the pic on this thread looks ...1"(?) Curious to the consensus of what's "needed" & what's overkill. |
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