2.2 -6 race motor, the thoughts continue Options

[seanery]

Ok, Thinking seriously about this now.

I've located an old aluminum 2.0 case with crank and intermediate shaft.

1. What mods would need to be done to this case?
2. If you were gonna build it to a 2.2 what would you put in it? Brand Names, part #'s, sizes all appreciated. (assume I need everything)

Thanks,
Sean

[Mueller]

I'd first buy and then read Bruce Andersons 911 Perfomance Handbook (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Da' Bible

First 914/6 I ever drove was a nieghbors original /6 with a motor rebuilt to 2.2 S specs......love at first Rev (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ArtechnikA]

I've located an old aluminum 2.0 case with crank and intermediate shaft.

1. What mods would need to be done to this case?
2. If you were gonna build it to a 2.2 what would you put in it? Brand Names, part #'s, sizes all appreciated. (assume I need everything)

i've been down part of this path before...

Al-case 2,2's won't need shuffle pins. might need an align bore (or hone) if it's had a hard life - i prefer Competition Engineering for stuff like that but i'm sure there are other competent places. Ollie's, prolly.

piston squirters - post '70 911 engines had 'em which means yours might or might not. whatever mods are needed for the oil pump you want to run - the 964 pump gets high marks. the scavenge update.

JE pistons, EBS Nikasil cylinders, Carillo rods. 930 tensioners with the updates. probably 4-bearing cam towers so you can run new-style cams, unless you want to go vintage (early S or 906 or someething...)

i'll think of more after dinner i'm sure ... watch this space...

[TimT]

Rich kinda summed it up

However I wouldnt give Carillo the snot off an old tissue... Ive dealt with them before, the customer service was lacking, and I had to wait for ages to get what I ordered.

For shits and giggles I had someone check out some carillo rods that "failed"... the rods met carillos published specs..... yet carillo told me they were NFG

Use Pauter..

[Brad Roberts]

I refuse to comment on this thread. You should have had me build a 2.2 4 cyl engine. The guy who wins GT5 in a 914 runs a 4cyl. SPANKS everyone at EVERY event he attends.


B

[seanery]

I aint racin' no four banger! THe six sounds better!

[TimT]

Brad, are you talking about 2.2 fours or sixes?

I don know shiet about fours........

I do know If you gave me some carillo rods Id hand them back and say no thanks... Thats how I feell about the experiences Ive had with carillo.


Pauter.....

[ArtechnikA]

However I wouldnt give Carillo the snot off an old tissue... Ive dealt with them before, the customer service was lacking, and I had to wait for ages to get what I ordered.

Use Pauter..

well - i didn't say buy them from Carillo :-) ...

Jerry Woods stocks them, buys in big enough quantities they'll listen when he orders; i'd buy from him ...

Pauter ? i have no first-hand knowledge. Jerry and Bruce Anderson don't think much of 'em tho.

pays yer money, takes yer chances.

i think if i were doing a 2,2 i'd find out if the factory titanium rods are still available :-) ...

[seanery]

titanium rods

that sounds pricey!

[campbellcj]

I'm thinking the key question to answer is where you want your power to be i.e. how high do you want to rev this puppy?

If you want to build a 9000 RPM small six then bring money for all the titunobtainium innards and primo machine work to keep it from grenading. Otherwise the factory built 'em pretty well to rev to 7200-7300 all day long with good longevity.

Somebody told me the HSR 2.0 cars are running up to 8200, maybe higher, in 5th gear at the end of the straights (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

I suppose headwork is also a key factor. The heads in my 2.2 pseudo-S are a "mystery" but I suspect they were not really reworked from the stock 914-6 setup. That is probably OK for now even though it leaves power on the table, cuz port work would stick me with even more classification points.

[Brad Roberts]

Tim,

I was talking about Alan Johnsen from Colorado running a 2.2 4cyl. He literally WHIPS everyone in GT5R no matter what event he attends. He runs a 2.2 liter 914. When we run PCA we have to run our 1.8 liter cars againts him. Its a struggle with 1.8 running against 2.2's.


B

[brant]

here is a qualifying sheet from the colorado club race a week and a half ago:

PCA-pueblo

brant

[Brad Roberts]

Only 1.4 seconds faster than number two qualifyer.

There where more 914's than 911's at that race.


B

[brant]

Colorado is actually pretty 914 heavy... There are frequently a lot of 914's at the bigger events..

Grand Junction is not that big of a town but there are probably 15 teeners that race out of that town.
Allen wrenches on most of those.

It seems that colorado 914 owners are not so internet active though.

brant

[Brad Roberts]

Yeah. They actually WORK on their cars.

Did you see Seans comment above: "I aint racing no 4cyl"

He hasnt paid for a full weekend of PCA or SCCA racing.


B

[MJHanna]

yeah but if you talk to Allen the life of one of his race motors is a couple hours. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[brant]

I disagree... I think he told me he had multiple seasons on that 2.2 motor, and he thought it was putting out 200hp at sea level.

I've seen one of his motors let go short of its lifespan. Its not a common thing. It spun the cam gear, and they felt it was a defective part.

I know I had 2 of his (smaller 2.0) motors. I wish I could put this into hours, but didn't have a meter on it. The first lasted for 3 seasons on a 2 driver PCA Car. This included a total of about 12 DE events and 4 club races each season... so x3 I would say roughly 30drivers ed weekends and 10 club race weekends.

The 2nd motor was only 2 years old and showed even less wear (which I attribute to an improved cooling and oil filtering system that was put onto the car)

He builds 6cylinders too.
His motors are not cheap.
I had 5k in the 1st and 6k in the last one.
but they are not time bombs either.

brant

[brant]

I feel like I'm bragging now...
I love that track, and this is the first year in 8 or 10 years I didn't have a running car to go....

here is my qualifying sheet from last year:

bragging

this was a class "I" car not one of the big-uns...

brant

[MJHanna]

Ok I misspoke I like Allen a lot and have a lot of respect for what he does and some of the great ideas he comes up with. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Have you ask what he does to the engine between races? How far down does he take for inspection? Etc? I’m not knocking what he does with them. What I was trying to imply is that the 4’s just don’t have the same life span as a 6. (So says the person with a 4 in his 914 race car and a 6 in the 911.) I’ve got more $$$ in my 4 2.0 than in the 6 right now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[brant]

I agree about the 6's having a better life span... Thats part of why I'm building a 2.0/6 car right now.

I'm not trying to start the whole debate about 4 versus 6.... but I know that Allen's car is lighter than a 6, and his results are damn impressive.

I can answer the question about inbetween race service: change the oil/adjust the valves...

thats it, unless there is a problem.
Allen never has time to touch his own engine. I don't think he does anything more to his than anyone elses.

I'm not saying that he is "oh so greater than anyone"..
I've never had one of Brad's or one of Raby's motors and I'm sure they are great too.... I was just going along with the statement that a 4 can be damn fast also...

Part of his results come from very well refined suspension, very skilled driving, and a very good "whole" package.

brant