Tranny Issues - Can't find first, I need help diagnosing please Options

[TROJANMAN]

First has never been a problem. In fact, in high school, i used to just sometimes skip to second and steal third, before taking home. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif)

But this weekend, first became a problem. The story goes as such:
I drove the car 5000 miles to what felt like the center of the earth in a small town called Lamar,CO. The place they show on the news every morning as the day's "hot spot" in the state. I proceeded to track the car on Satruday and Sunday. (BTW there is absolutlety no reason to EVER travel east of Denver. It all looks the same, and you can actually see the curvature of the earth.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

First gear was fine all weekend, no problems. After my second to last run, it was gone. I say second to last, because i tracked the car one more time without first gear and without any problems. Every other gear is just fine. No problems shifting, or finding any other gear. I drove the car home without incident. (hit 118 on the speedo. and trust me NO ONE was around) We drained half the tranny oil at the track, and there was no metal to be found. I just can't find first gear. We checked the linkage, and everything seems to be moving ok, except when i am looking for first. all bushings appear to be in tact, and i am guessing if i had a problem with my firewall bushing, i would not be able to shift so smoothly to the other 4 gears (+reverse) that i am using. I did have some slight grind when finding third on the track, and maybe i was hitting first, but i sincerely doubt it. especially since my fist gear has always been tempramental. I only ever shift into first when i am at a complete stop, and i wait for it to pop in, before attempting to move forward. Plus, I didn't grind any other gears all weekend, just on the last run, and it was only, ever so slight. BTW, on the track, I only used 3,4, and 5. 1st and 2nd were only used at the starter.

Thanks in Advance (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

(brant, care to add.....?)

[So.Cal.914]

If you are not making it to first base it could be your Prostate gland.

You did not mention wether you checked your clutch adjustment. If you did and the cable is fine also than it could be the sancro ring. If allowed to expand to much it won't mesh like normal. But double check your bushings and linkage.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[Ferg]

5000 miles is alot in a weekend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Describe what it feels like when you are trying to engage? How is Reverse? Are you able to shift into first "area" and it's just not there, or are you not even able to go against the spring and down...

Ferg

[rhodyguy]

is the linkage freeplay the same, side to side and front to rear, for each while 2nd and 3rd are engaged, respectively? the shifter handle may have slid a bit on the front shift rod.

k

[Dr Evil]

If you can shift into reverse then the shift fork is installed and it is not a shifter problem.

What sounds do you get when you try 1st?

From my own experiences:
-If your shift rod was binding a little on your engine mount bar then your synchro band would soon become shinny = bad.
- It is possible for your brake band stop and pillow block to come out of your synchro band (rare, but possible).


What you should do is take the tail cone off and check your 1st gear and related items.
Things to note:
-Index the shift fork rod so you can reinstal the fork inthe same position again (keeps your fork alignment nice so you dont have to pull the stack to readjust).
-Remove the fork, slider, and 1st gear.
-Take pics so we can see.

[LvSteveH]

Are you sure it's not operator error? If I recall first gear was rather elusive in Mike's car at Joe's BBQ. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Oh, and you might want to check your linkage connections, particularly where the shifter connects to the shift rod. If it slipped during spirited driving, first may now be outside the range of motion of the shifter. You would typically have trouble with reverse too, as they are on the same plane, but it's worth checking based on your description.

[TROJANMAN]

front to rear, it does not move as far when trying to find first. side to side and every other gear is fine.
clutch is not out of adjustment, and the cable is good.
i can find the "area" (i think), but cannot go against the spring and down, it just wants to pop out. Every other gear is smooth.

[TROJANMAN]

Are you sure it's not operator error? If I recall first gear was rather elusive in Mike's car at Joe's BBQ. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

That was second, smart ass. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) someone put reverse where second is supposed to be on mike's car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

reverse is fine on my car. no problems there either. just no first. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Air_Cooled_Nut]

...BTW there is absolutlety no reason to EVER travel east of Denver. It all looks the same, and you can actually see the curvature of the earth.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)...

Heh, I can vouch for that! When I left the Navy (Charleston, SC) and drove home (Philomath, OR) in my VW, I took the middle of the USA. Kansas was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif) I swore that if I was from that area I would've re-enlisted -- and I couldn't stand the Navy! For a while it was just me and some older lady in a BMW, cruising at 80mph... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yellowsleep[1].gif)

As to your problem, are your cone screws snug? Sounds like you've covered everything else.

[rhodyguy]

not to be redundant, while reverse is engaged, does there seem to be alot of fore/aft freeplay. before you tear the trans apart... take a peek at the shift lever frnt rod connection point. you may even see a little "witness" line where it has slipped. then inspect the rear cup bushing at the rear shift rod.

k

[TROJANMAN]

If you can shift into reverse then the shift fork is installed and it is not a shifter problem.
What sounds do you get when you try 1st?

From my own experiences:
-If your shift rod was binding a little on your engine mount bar then your synchro band would soon become shinny = bad.
- It is possible for your brake band stop and pillow block to come out of your synchro band (rare, but possible).

what sounds?
#$%&^@! (wait, that's the sound of me cursing) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I do not believe the shift rod is binding. (but where it would it be binding?) every other gear is quite smooth. and there was no chunks of anything in my gear oil.

why is the your second diagnosis so rare? that sounds more possible, if everything else is clean, doesn't it? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)


kev,
no freeplay in reverse. rear cup bushing appears ok. i will check the front conncection tonight.



thanks everyone. this is great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

[LvSteveH]

Ok, we are done being nice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Loosen the shift rod at the shifter, put the trans in 2nd gear by hand, put the shift lever where you want 2nd to be (top and center) snug the nut down, and check your pattern. Repeat as needed until everything is right with the world again. Then tighten the adjuster nut fully.

[rhodyguy]

that helps loads(i think). wag is the shifter connection has slid on the front rod. mark where it rests now with a sharpey(sp) and move the shifter connection forward on the front rod. i hope for your sake that is all it is.

k

[brant]

I have a tiny bit to add..
I crawled under the car while greg was inside shifting.
the shift rod itself moved 1/2 inch less for 1st gear than it did for 3rd or 5th.

it is not moving far enough to engage first. It is not sloppy.. just won't move physically far enough

from inside the car, I could feel first... barely. the reason it is "popping" out of first is because it is only barely engaging... not enough to fully engage or stay in.

(by the way greg... do not try to use 1st at all, because if it pops out enough times... it will ruin the dog on 1st. = $400)

I checked bushings and cone screws.
there are only 2 things I think it could be=
1) not likely... something is physically blocking the shift lever from moving... doesn't seem likely since it goes into 3rd and 5th fully normal.
2) more likely... something inside the tranny is preventing the full range of motion. Likely a shift fork loosened up or else the brake band retainer broke or cracked enough to cause it to interfer with range of motion

greg
the brake band is what greg johnson diagnosed at the track when I talked to him.

but this thread is still great and useful.
someone may come up with the solution!

brant

[2-OH!]

Maybe someone has already suggested this as I did not read all the post completely...

Disconnect the shift rod from the transmission...Physically move the lever sticking out of the transmission and see if you can physically feel 5 gears and reverse...Or, you can remove the lever housing (now you need a new O-ring) and just move the forks to see if you can feel the gears...If you can, then the problem is in the linkage and not the transmission...Or Vice Versa...

2-OH!

[Dr Evil]

I would bet the break band and the pillow blocks are forcing the synchro band out so that it can not compress causing it to not engauge. It is rare because it doesnt happen often (duh). This doesnt mean it can't happen to you, just that you have particularly crappy luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It could be worse if we are right. If you need parts, let me know as I have acess to new parts fro less than any other place that I have seen.

Sounds similar to what you say Greg said.


Time to take the tail cone off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

It is not all that bad.

[TROJANMAN]

Brant,

Would you describe the gear oil we drained as having a gold sheen? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

Thanks mike, for your time on the phone today (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[MoveQik]

Are you sure it's not operator error? If I recall first gear was rather elusive in Mike's car at Joe's BBQ. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[TROJANMAN]

Are you sure it's not operator error? If I recall first gear was rather elusive in Mike's car at Joe's BBQ. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Keep laughing AZ boy.
you're spending a whole lotta cash to mount a nice motor to a tired tranny. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif)

[MoveQik]

Are you sure it's not operator error? If I recall first gear was rather elusive in Mike's car at Joe's BBQ. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Keep laughing AZ boy.
you're spending a whole lotta cash to mount a nice motor to a tired tranny. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/chairfall.gif)

Don't stop there....I'm spending a lot of money to find out my tranny sucks, my brakes suck, my tires suck....the list will go on I'm sure. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)