i think i'm "effed", i'm no sucker, but i might cry. Options

[lotus_65]

so, becuse i only buy shi*t, or i'm stupid, or i don't deserve people watching out for me, or i could go on...

we installed the (completely) rebuilt motor (including align bore & complete case work to fix things like tin screws broken off in the case, blah, blah) back in the car, and i discovered a problem.

the bolt that holds the screen/plate was broken and a part of the bolt was lodged in the nut that holds and seals the plate to the case. the p.o. had a heavy gauge steel plate rigged to hold the screen/plate in position, and it was fit on the engine using the case bolts.

you'd think the machinest would fix that right?

nope.

thousands of dollars.

months of time.

now i get to rig it just like before, of tear it completely apart again.

[lotus_65]

what do you guy's think about somehow threading the remaining part of the stud and adding a sleeve to extend it. then put a bolt on to the sleeve.

??

[TROJANMAN]

i was just about to say..............
i am not that familiar with the bold, but if there are any threads on it, you could slide a piece through the hole and seal it.
have you ever hung a light fixture? the threaded bolt concept would be the same.

or perhaps you could have a machine shop machine you a new plate with a raised threaded portion.

[lotus_65]

there aren't any threads left. it's sheared at the end of the threads. the oil pickup is there and i don't think i could add thread unless i removed part of the pickup (i know, i can't do that).

jb weld a sleeve on to it?

[willrc]

there aren't any threads left. it's sheared at the end of the threads. the oil pickup is there and i don't think i could add thread unless i removed part of the pickup (i know, i can't do that).

jb weld a sleeve on to it?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) can you weld a nut on the end and remove the bolt then put in a new one? Just my 1/2 cents worth. rich

[jhadler]

I guess I'm confused here. What exactly happened? Did the motor come back from the shop that way? If so, the shop has got to fix it on thier dime. If it sheared while you were installing the sump, then yeah, it's gonna be a PITA to fix right. If there are any threads left, you could have a sleeve machined to fit over the threded end of the bolt, and open up the bore of the sump plate to clear the sleeve.

Yeah, that blows.

Hmmm, don't know. Maybe if you drop that sump plate, there might be room to spin a die over the bolt end and cut some new threads and then get a sleeve over it. I wouldn't JB weld it though...

I feel your pain...

-Josh2

[jhadler]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) can you weld a nut on the end and remove the bolt then put in a new one? Just my 1/2 cents worth. rich

That bolt goes all the way up into the engine case, and is captured internally. replacing the bolt is usually a case-splitting affair.

-Josh2

[lotus_65]

That bolt goes all the way up into the engine case, and is captured internally. replacing the bolt is usually a case-splitting affair.

-Josh2

yup, that's what ticks me off so much.

i knew there was a problem when i saw the rig-job done by the p.o.

i didn't specifically point it out to my machineist figuring he's spec everything... it's a case of me not being thorough and having "all" the answers so nobody else has to think (or do their job with enough pride to cover for a guy who doesn't know "everything", but knows enough to write a good check).
...of course if i knew everything, i'd just f*cking do it myself.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[jhadler]

So you bought the motor from the P.O. and then handed it to your machinist, and he didn't do anything about the sheared bolt? His bad. Any self-respecting machinist SHOULD have at the very least called you and asked you about it, or just replaced the thing. It's practically a trivial task once the motor's cracked open.

Give the machinist a call and ask him. Really, he (or she) should have seen that and noted it. A sheared bolt is generally not something that belongs in an engine case...

-Josh2

[914-8]

I agree, the machinist should have caught that.

That's one issue. But from a strictly mechanical side, couldn't you just weld a threaded stud onto that to extend it an inch? Or weld a sleeve onto that, and either screw in or weld a threaded stud into the sleeve?

If you could thread it, you could screw a sleeve onto it. But I'm not sure how you'd thread that in the spot it's in. It would be hard to get a die on it.

[So.Cal.914]

The bolt is held in with a small bolt thru the case. It's like an eye bolt, pinched

into a notch cut out of one of the cam bearing towers. I have never tried it but

you might want to check it out. Maybe if you remove the small retaining bolt that

runs perpindicular to the broken bolt, If the "eye" part will fit thru the hole in the

oil pickup you could get lucky. Pull it out and put a new one in. Good Luck.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[jhadler]

Yeah, slipping that bolt out might be possible. But then again, it's still a PITA. I'd call the machinist first and foremost though. Why mess it up before the machinist can get a chance to fix their oversight?

-Josh2

[So.Cal.914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[McMark]

The bolt and the pickup are one piece braised together. No luck there.

My idea is to drill and tap into the broken off end. Then use a smaller bolt and a washer to hole the sump cover in place.

[Cap'n Krusty]

Lemme get this straight. You gave the "machinist" a long block and he "rebuilt" it? He didn't even get the old gasket off the sump mating surface! Or did you give him a box of parts and tell him to rebuild it? Or maybe he did the machine work (which usually includes cleaning the parts!) and you assembled it. Whatever happened, the broken stud is part of the oil pickup assembly, which is bloted to the windage tray, and it's NOT part of the case. It can't be removed without disassembling the engine. I would be happy to provide you with an unbroken oil pickup assembly. I would certainly suspect the quality of the work you were charged for, and would certainly question the skliis and knowledge of the "machinist" involved. Furthermore, there are plenty of us here on the list who could have done the work for you, or at least guided you through the process. The Cap'n

[McMark]

Here's what it looks like up inside.

After looking at how small that bolt is you'd have to use a very small bolt to make my idea work. Maybe still worth a try since the only other option is taking the engine apart.

Also, the tub surrounding the bolt is where the oil flows. You really don't want to reduce that with a sleeve or the like.

[Thack]

There are a few ways you could go about this. Either way there is some welding and work to be done.
One way is you could take a die and grind the od until it fits thru that hole. Weld a long socket to the die if it will weld. Before you cut threads put some shaving cream in the hole to catch any metal, you can vacuum it out when your done. Then cut a few threads on the short bolt. Then weld a small sleeve to the end of a bolt or stud.
If you try to weld a stud to the bolt itself you could burn up the broken bolt or have a crooked stud sticking out unless you jig it up correctly. A tig welder might work if you were to attempt that. There is not a lot of room there to work with though.

[Thack]

McMark has the other method I was going to suggest. Just make sure you use a very sharp center punch to start your pilot hole before you drill it. Wouldn't hurt to grind the bolt a little flatter on the end so you can have a good flat surface to work with.

[Twystd1]

So I was thinking about this...

One could possibly weld an extension onto the stud. The problem is that if any of the current flows through the bearings... YOUR TOAST.

Therefore one of the electrodes would need to placed on the pickup itself. And not the block. Cause you really can't tell where least path of resisitance is going to be internally in the block. Gotta cover your butt on that....

And ya ain't got much room to do so... yet with the right guy welding it with a tig... it's possible (assuming you have enough room to work) And none of the welding slag falls into the block

I have seen aircraft guys and indy car guys do this kind of welding impeccably.

Me::::::: I would just fuch it up........

The other scenario is that you MIGHT be able to direct weld on a threaded extension directly to the existing broken stud. Whereas the new threaded section acts like the electrode and welds itself to the broken stud. I have seen it done at oil refinerys back in the day.
Then again... Those guys know how and do it everyday.

All of the above is a crap shoot.... Cause if ya lose oil pressure... You B screwed..

If it were mine... I would take it apart. Do it right... Do it once... And be done with it.

A good question to ask yourself is the following. If this was YOUR clients engine... And you were liable for the work... What would you do???

That almost always answers my questions as to what quality of work I am willing to do...... For myself as well as others.....

Twystd1

[rhodyguy]

stop the bleeding. fix this problem with your brand new engine correctly. i know your pain.

k