Does the engine need all those shrouds?, and other engine questions Options

[521401]

I am new to air cooled Porsche, as I currently run with the Porsche water coolers. My 1.7 needs rebuilding, and where is a good place to find a complete overhaul kit for it? I need cylinders, heads, pistons, and gaskets. I would stick in a Lycoming I built, but I don't think it would perform very well on the street. I just want a running motor, not some hot 2.0 liter. I have other Porsche's for my speed needs. Also, I know all the metal around the motor routes air, but is it really that effective? And is it structural, as in it is part of the mounting for the engine? I have heard three stories about air cooled engines- it will overheat without shrouds, it runs same without shroud, and it runs cooler without shroud. I was thinking about mounting electric fans on the under side of the engine cover to extract hot air as well. Anybody try that out yet?

[sean_v8_914]

Welcome to the 914(non) club!
this site and Pelicanparts.com are the best online sources for porsche technical data. I have built entire cars from teh information found here.
porsche engineering invested alot of time and money into developing that cooling system . the more complete it is, the better it works. do not omit and pieces.

the facts are:
yes, it WILL overheat and selfdestruct without the cooling tins

if it runs without the shrouds, it will not last very long if under load

Pelican is a great place for parts

[Twystd1]

If this is a street car. Not a pure track car.

And you are NOT going to put an after market cooling system on your engine.

The answer is: YES you should keep ALL the cooling tin on your engine.

And welcome to the club 521401.

Check out the SEARCH function on this BBS.

Put in DTM, or Shroud, or engine tin, etc.

You will have hours of learning to do.

Then you will have your answer with clarity.

SEARCH function is your friend.

Cheers and welcome aboard.

Twstd1

[So.Cal.914]

No it is not structural yes it is nessesary...Very. If you want to build a reliable

T-4 that will be super fun I would sudjest one of Jake Raby's kits and he gives

good heads. (kidding Jake) I have seen V8's with fans but IMHO it would be

counterproductive. The fresh air for cooling is sucked in thur that opening and

the fans would be in direct compition with that air flow.

Oh and welcome to the club.

[G e o r g e]

if your just looking for basic "not some hot 2.0" then i would just look in the want adds. you can pick up a complete well running engine in there from time to time relatively inexpensive compared with a rebuild. even a top end rebuild


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)




and what clayton said in his second post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rocking nana.gif)

[So.Cal.914]

and what clayton said in his second post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rocking nana.gif)

Split personality or an echo?

[521401]

Thanks for that info. I have rebuilt air cooled H-4's before, so it is not a matter of skill, but knowledge of the VW product. The 914 motors were type IV I understand, and what is the commonality with the other types of VW engines like the type I,II,III and 1500/1600's used in Beetles and other VW's? Same heads, pistons, cylinders, rods, etc. or are those parts specific to each type VW motor? I know the cases are different, but what about the internals? I need new heads, and everyone has either 1.8 or 2.0 914 heads, or heads for 1500 and 1600 engines. As long as it is dual port, does it really matter what head put on? Are these motors like small block Chevy's, where pretty much everything interchanges with each other? I have not found a good book to answer all of my questions yet. I got a book about rebuilding air cooled VW's, but it is more specific to the process of rebuilding; I need some general knowledge.

And this forum has more smileys than you can hake at a stick at.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stick.gif)

[Dave_Darling]

The Type I/II/III engines were variations on a theme, and had lots of interchangeable parts. The Type IV was just about a clean-sheet redesign, and has zero important parts in common with the Type Is.

If you want a stock 1.7, then you need 1.7 heads. The 1.8 and 2.0 ones have larger registers than the 1.7s do, and you would need some kind of spacer to fit them onto the 1.7 cylinders.

Reading about the engines: http://tunacan.net/t4/

Where to buy rebuild kits? Just about any place that deals with 914s. My favorite can be found at the link in my sig, below. (I may be a bit prejudiced, though.)

--DD

[SirAndy]

The Type IV was just about a clean-sheet redesign, and has zero important parts in common with the Type Is.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) sorry, no luck looting that big VW parts bin ...

T4 was completely redesigned. while the basic concept is similar to the TI/II/II engines, the used parts are not.

btw. you *can* put 2.0L pistons/cylinders/heads on a 1.7L block.
heads are *not* interchangeable between different displacement sizes unless you have access to a good machine-shop. bring $$$.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) Andy

[521401]

I found a website that has some useful info. The tunacan one answers lots of questions. I think I will end up buying a running Type IV, as this would be cheaper for now. All I know is the last owner said something happened with the valves. He is a friend so I believe him. I have not investigated the matter much, as I have yet to pull the engine from the car. It is a nice car, but I am not sure if my friend figured out that you have to set the valves, and that it is not an RX-7 with a 8500 RPM redline.

[Mueller]

I am new to air cooled Porsche, as I currently run with the Porsche water coolers. My 1.7 needs rebuilding, and where is a good place to find a complete overhaul kit for it? I need cylinders, heads, pistons, and gaskets. I would stick in a Lycoming I built,

do we have another A&P on the board??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)
(licensed but not practicing myself but there are few others here)

but I don't think it would perform very well on the street. I just want a running motor, not some hot 2.0 liter. I have other Porsche's for my speed needs. Also, I know all the metal around the motor routes air, but is it really that effective? And is it structural, as in it is part of the mounting for the engine? I have heard three stories about air cooled engines- it will overheat without shrouds, it runs same without shroud, and it runs cooler without shroud. I was thinking about mounting electric fans on the under side of the engine cover to extract hot air as well. Anybody try that out yet?

[521401]

Not really a working A&P right now.....back at school. I am getting more into aircraft electrical and radar than powerplants now. Powerplant-wise I started off in military working on GE-701's in 'copters. I much perfer the simplicity of an O-235 or C-85. I played around in a local shop doing overhauls, inspection, figuring out how Piper made it's interiors fit through a tiny door, the usual stuff.

[anthony]

Thanks for that info. I have rebuilt air cooled H-4's before, so it is not a matter of skill, but knowledge of the VW product.

I would recommend watching Raby's engine rebuild video:

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/p...at=0&page=1

He goes through a complete tear down and rebuild of a type IV. He also talks a lot about how it differs from a type I.

[Mark Henry]

The Type IV was just about a clean-sheet redesign, and has zero important parts in common with the Type Is.

This is true but there is a couple of parts that do.

Bearing pins, dizzy gear, spacer and circlip, some of the cam bearings (which also fit the early 911 intermediate shaft), valve keepers, intake guides and a couple of other odds and ends. The oil cooler is the same design but has 2 extra plates.

Even the DTM shroud will need the sealing tin for street use.

[Dave_Darling]

Very true, Mark, which is why I said "important parts". Not that those are unimportant, but the major assemblies you would buy are completley different.

--DD