Should you responed to a jerk? Options

[akellym]

I'll start this by saying I don't have any problem with someone telling me that I've posted something in the wrong forum. That being said...

The other day I posted in the originality/preservation forum. I found a lot of info on concours stuff there. I made the mistake of posting some info about my car there, the winnings and concours I've been to. I thought it was relative to the forum as far as concours stuff. My topic title "Not original but a winner!"

Pat closed the thread. No big deal with me, until I read the last paragraph.

OK, I'm sure a lot of you expected me to open my mouth here. Time for me to be the bad guy. Don't really want to, because this IS a nice 914. It IS far from original (per the owner) and this IS an originality forum. And, will stay an originality form....so long as I am the Moderator.

I know I'm going to be VERY unpopular here, but I'm closing this thread.

Feel free to take it to the Garage Forum. Should have never been posted here.

This Forum is for originality/preservation. Just because you show with a slick looking, unoriginally equipped 914 & win (for whatever reason), doesn't mean you get space on his Forum. Hope I haven't hurt your feelings & all your self imposed accolades (ask me about mine!), but, as nice as your 914 is, it isn't original or preserved. Doesn't belong here.

Topic closed.

"self imposed accolades" kiss my ass!! Those "accolades" were given(not imposed, you ass) to me by my peers. I only posted them to show that you can win car shows and concours event with out being original or "preserved".

So Pat I'll just say I'm sorry for posting in your forum and I think your a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bootyshake.gif) for your last paragraph. Hope I didn't hurt your feelings.

[Joe Ricard]

See if he wants to race.

[pin31]

Pat, I don't get it.....no need for comments like that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[blitZ]

Seems a bit uncalled for, possibly even anal.

Oh, congrats on your car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[thomasotten]

Ok, let's see a pic of the car in question. I have a non-original 914, but there are aspects of it that are very original. I have posted questions over there before, I don't see why you would get a thread shut down.

[type47]

in any community, there is a huge number of different people, attitudes, opinions, personalities, .... you need to have a thick skin and not get offended. heck, wait 'til you get slammed by the Cap'n (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[GaroldShaffer]

While I'm not a concourse person, I do understand where Pat is coming from. With that being said his comments, to me anyway, would have pissed me off also. I know like many others on this site, Kelly goes to great pains to keep his beloved 914 in top condition. I have seen it in person many times at different 914 meets.
The thing that I'm amazed at is he drives to all these events and keeps the car in great condition.

Here is Kelly's car at the FFC05 in Nashville Indiana.

[Johny Blackstain]

I'm sorry to have to disagree w/ you but IMHO you're the one who was wrong. The entire point of the forum is in the title. Your car is gorgeous but hardly original or historical. Quite frankly I'm surprised it took him so long to shut you down. The Garage is the appropriate forum for showing off such a fine babe like your Teener. Put her back the way she came from the factory & post away in the O&H forum. Otherwise, she does not belong there. Not trying to be a d*ck here, but the Admins have made it his forum for a reason; having the balls to close down a popular thread that has nothing to do w/ the main subject of the forum might be one of those Admin reasons.

Perhaps the Admins could start a new forum for modified Teeners? I find it interesting how this could be tied into McMarks' latest survey on competition judging. Do we need a forum for every division? Possibly a concours forum that discusses exactly that & not the relative condition of a car, but the concours event, proceedures & awards themselves?


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif)

[URY914]

Pat has made some bonehead statements in the past. Seems he will continue to due so.

Kinda proves the point about the whole q-tip crowd.

[iamchappy]

What's not original about it, I also have seen Kelley's car a few times , outside of the west coast classic plate in front and beautiful paint color all over it sure fooled me, I thought for sure it was a 914.

Pat was out of line with his comment, he could of handled it much differently with
some tact and less prejudice.

Best to move on and stay out of his forum.

[Ferg]

WOW Kelly, this sucks!

I think that Pat is/was way out of line. I think that the "title" of the forum has nothing to do with it. That forum IMO was meant to include cars like yours and mine, plain and simple. Restorations that improve upon the original design.

No matter if Pat likes it or not, you car is a multiple Concour winner, facts are facts. True, both of us would get waxed at parade by other cars due to lack of originality but that's not the point. You are participating, and adding joy to the site and got shut down for it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I'm as pissed off as you...


I really hope you get a apology and the thread is re opened.

Ferg (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I would like to suggest that maybe the forum name Originality and History change to include the word "Show" or "Concour" be made, to clear up it's intended purpose.

[MoveQik]

Wow...where do you even start with this one? A simple, "Even though it isn't totally original, it is a supurb 914" would have worked much better. Kelly, I saw your car at Moab last year. It is an awesome car. I think it is abundantly clear who is WAY out of line here. I hope you get an apology.

[nine14cats]

Hi Kelly,

Sorry to hear about your issues with the moderator. I don't know him but I've read how he comes across and he isn't very nice sometimes in the black and white world of cyberspace. If the moderator disagreed with something you wrote, why not just PM or e-mail you offline? Why take it public?

Very disappointing. But the moderator does dictate what is posted and read in the forums they moderate, so there's not much you can do.

I suggest you don't respond back as it probably won't do much in the way of helping the situation. There are hundreds of folks like me here who can appreciate the effort you have put into your 914 and the pride you should feel for being recognized for it at car events. Stay in the garage or paddock with the majority of us. While a personal attack from a 914 World moderator reflects poorly on the site as a whole, it really is no different than any other social or business enterprise. 914 World has a large following and with it comes all kinds of diversity. Just avoid the folks that you don't agree with and enjoy the other 99%!

BTW, nice car! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

Bill P.

[SGB]

Pat has gone to great effort to keep his 914 absolutely pure, and he wants his forum the same way. S'OK with me. I guess I won't be posting there much though. That sure is a purty teener Kelly.

[boxstr]

They seem to have a different set of standards on that side of town. You are more than welcome over here.
CCLIN914NATION

[Johny Blackstain]

:can-o-worms: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/hide.gif)

[G e o r g e]

Why close the thread?

listed in the rules thread

We like everyone to be able to have their voice, so we won't edit, delete or lock a thread or post unless it's just gotta be done. Keep yer dirty pictures in the Sandbox, too. We'll do our best to send you a PM before we clean up yer messes.

why not just label it OT or move it to the garage?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/hijacked.gif)

kelly the car does look nice (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

[TROJANMAN]

Kelly,
I've seen your car in person, and I am surprised there is no picture of it next to This Definition in Webster's:

Main Entry: con·cours d'e·le·gance
Pronunciation: (")kOn-"kur-"dA-lA-'gäns
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural con·cours d'e·le·gance /same or -"kurz-"dA-/
Etymology: French concours d'élégance, literally, competition of elegance
: a show or contest of vehicles and accessories in which the entries are judged chiefly on excellence of appearance and turnout

Will you make Moab again this year? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cap'n Krusty]

WOW Kelly, this sucks!

I think that Pat is/was way out of line. I think that the "title" of the forum has nothing to do with it. That forum IMO was meant to include cars like yours and mine, plain and simple. Restorations that improve upon the original design.

No matter if Pat likes it or not, you car is a multiple Concour winner, facts are facts. True, both of us would get waxed at parade by other cars due to lack of originality but that's not the point. You are participating, and adding joy to the site and got shut down for it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I'm as pissed off as you...


I really hope you get a apology and the thread is re opened.

Ferg (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I would like to suggest that maybe the forum name Originality and History change to include the word "Show" or "Concour" be made, to clear up it's intended purpose.

What part of "originality and history, a forum for research and preservation of the 914 as it came from the factory" don't you understand? There are "concours" (note the spelling) cars and there are "show" cars. The former are always show cars, but the latter hardly ever are concours cars. You can have a wall, or even a room, full of trophys, but the ones that count in PCA (and the ones that matter to CWs and many other Porschephiles) are the ones earned in a concours d'elegance, NOT in "car shows". No matter how "nice" your car is, it might as well be a "lead sled" as far as winning a concours trophy. Furthermore, "peoples choice" awards count for NOTHING. Well, maybe they count for a "warm fuzzy feeling".

While the original poster may well be justifiably proud of his car, it has NO PLACE in a concours forum. While the remarks of the moderator may have been a bit insensitive, or even unkind, the person who put his totally inappropriate posting in that forum remains at fault for his actions resulting in the rebuke.

While I'm at it, where do you get the idea that a restoration includes things " that improve upon the original design"? Restoration is the act of returning something to it's ORIGINAL condition. IMPROVING something is just that; making it better. However, "improving" often tuirns into that ugly word often used as a synonym: "UPGRADE". Both are frequently misused. Most often, at least on these forums, both words are misstatements.


Am I being too Krusty here? Does the truth hurt? Have a nice day ................ The Cap'n

[1970 Neun vierzehn]

I've known Pat Garvey personally for over 30 years. We have shared much over those many years. His wife, Jan, my wife Linda, Pat and I have gone on vacations together, shared countless meals, we have stayed under their roof many times, and I have been on the receiving end of his beneficence relating not only to matters 914, many times.

With that said, I can also relate that I have been, and still am on, the wrong end of his approval rating for my 914. The chastisement and criticism that I get from Pat regarding my 195/60 tires, Euro T/L lenses, SE/LE airdam, H-4 H/Ls and A/M steering wheel is constant and never-ending. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif) Pat could be considered the "Concours Nazi" (sorry if I offended anyone with that appellation.) Pat jealously guards and protects the "purity" and sanctity of the OEM 914 with religious zeal.

Pat is also working his way through the dictionary. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) He has mastered the ABCs (abuse, belligerent, caustic) through S (sarcasm) and has not yet gotten to the letter "T" (tact, tolerance). I cut Pat lots of slack 'cause I know him so well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

Kelly's 914 is wonderful not only in its presentation and appearance ( I have seen it up close) but also in the fact that he drives and enjoys using his car. From what I've seen, the car is in concours condition, but not by any means original. Sort of what you might classify as "improved/custom".

So where am I going with all this? I'm with Pat that Kelly's car by all means merits Forum space, but not necessarily on the O/H section. That said, however, those of us who frequent there could certainly learn from Kelly on how to maintain a pristine car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif) So in that sense, yes , that striking 914 can be featured there.

And Pat? Pat is being Pat. I accept him for just as he is and look past any shortcomings he may manifest, just as he tolerates all my foibles.

Finally I apologize to anyone if I've offended with my remarks or categorizations and any appearance that I'm taking sides. However, Pat remains my friend.

Paul