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> Bringing out the dead
sixnotfour
post Oct 6 2007, 09:36 PM
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I am in shock that some one in CA would take on this project.
We have seen countless Less rusty cars been cut up down there. (CA.)

My Hat is off to you, Great Job.

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Jeff Hail
post Oct 6 2007, 09:50 PM
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Seam sealer stripped off the inner firewall with the Wurth Master. Leaves a clean bare metal surface.

I will say removing the wiring harness is a pain in the ass. I have come to the conclusion that the factory fed it through the tunnel and out the rear firewall without the sheath with the two big grommets that plug the firewall and front shelf. I think they installed that sheath from the back end after the loom was routed. Just my opinion.

I am actually thinking about modular-izing the loom. Wouldnt take much to do it. I have to unwrap it anyhow because I has some areas that need repair and shrink tube. I also cut a little insulation here and there doing the removal.

Must be wondering why I removed the the seam sealer on the inside of the firewall???

Thanks to Perry I have a NOS lower firewall and it will get replaced.
This is actually an early firewall but will adapt to the 75' easily with little modification. I will reinforce the e-brake and clutch and cable junctions on the inside of the panel prior to the installation. I will make it stronger than the factory did and it will all be hidden. This area is one of the 914's design flaws.

Part of my project is improving on some of the factory shortcomings. Making improvements invisible or at least less visible is the challenge.

Stay tuned!


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Jeff Hail
post Oct 6 2007, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Oct 6 2007, 08:36 PM) *

I am in shock that some one in CA would take on this project.
We have seen countless Less rusty cars been cut up down there. (CA.)

My Hat is off to you, Great Job.


Thanks, back at ya!
I have looked at countless 914 tubs. Very few are truly rust free. This tub cost me nothing. It has never been in a collision and the upper body is straight. It has rust issues that are all easily corrected. It is really not as bad as it looks. Time consuming yes but easily corrected. In the end I will know every square inch of this car is sound and "clean". I have seen too many so called rust free tubs that have surprises in them. I could have spent top dollar on someone else's car not knowing what went into it. Then tearing it down and starting from scratch. This car has some issues but what 914 doesnt?

Taking a step back I could have found a perfect car. Considering the modifications planned I would still have to perform sheetmetal work. This is all part of the game plan. Just a few extra steps to take. Of course it also saves another 914! (sort of)

This project isn't about time or cost. In fact I do not have that much into it. It is about the goal. I am not restoring a 914. I am building a Porsche the way the factory intended but Volkswagon got in the way. A few special "options" thrown in that were not available will be added.

The basic build plan:
Mid Engine Configuration
Short wheelbase
Under 2000 lbs
Low CG
250+ HP flat six
A car that can be street driven and tracked
A whole heap of aftermarket performance vendors at my disposal.....
A build that generates "smiles per hour"........and spanks the unsuspecting.

I considered just buying a car. The mid engine ones I want are out of my price range with the Prancing Horse emblems. I considered buying an Elise that fit my build plan but I think I can do better for less. Besides I hate English cars.

Throttle on!
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Jeff Hail
post Oct 7 2007, 12:06 AM
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You gotta have bars. Keep those gaps in check when performing any major work on the longs or floor. Even with the body fully supported from below the roof/ hinge pillars need to be kept under flex control at all times when replacing sheetmetal.

I made these to work with the doors on the car. You cannot check the door gaps while in progress without doors mounted. It makes the job easier and I know what the end product will be. Heat during welding makes metal expand and contract. Anyone who has ever replaced a rocker panel on any car (even with a full roof) knows how important this is.

If a 914 left the factory out of spec (yes they have) this is where it can be corrected. The door bars can be adjusted to put the windshield header and roll bar in perfect spec.

If it starts straight it will end up straight!


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Jeff Hail
post Oct 7 2007, 12:13 AM
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This is an original Coppertone car that was re-painted red later in its life. Its a little hard to tell rust from paint in photos.
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stateofidleness
post Oct 7 2007, 01:11 AM
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even if you're just cutting out small patches from the pans? (say 3" by 3" tops) and no work being done on the longs

*subscribes* really interested to see the progress on the firewall repair! i have those exact holes and curious to see the fix.

question. did you remove the wiring harness? it is a pain... i sleeved mine for the time being but didnt know if it needed to be removed if i was going to be welding around it

and im also assuming you dropped the engine? for the battery tray area?
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Jeff Hail
post Oct 7 2007, 01:41 AM
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QUOTE(stateofidleness @ Oct 7 2007, 12:11 AM) *

even if you're just cutting out small patches from the pans? (say 3" by 3" tops) and no work being done on the longs

*subscribes* really interested to see the progress on the firewall repair! i have those exact holes and curious to see the fix.

question. did you remove the wiring harness? it is a pain... i sleeved mine for the time being but didnt know if it needed to be removed if i was going to be welding around it

and im also assuming you dropped the engine? for the battery tray area?


If you are quilting patches in or just repairing the floors I would not go to such an extreme as I have with a fixture and door supports. I have stripped my tub to just a shell. I have left only the glass in so little critter's do not find a place to camp out for the winter. I hate when four legged things jump out of nowhere at me.

Yes I have removed the wiring harness. If you are doing spot repairs leave the harness in or only partially remove/ pullback for any welding in the firewall/ tunnel area repairs.. I have to repair some areas of the loom anyway and I find it it my way if left in the car. Engine is out and being replaced with a six. The four cylinder mounts will disappear on the inner longs.
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watsonrx13
post Oct 7 2007, 07:30 AM
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Very nice photo-documentary on the restoration of this vechile...

Can you show a better photo of where the bars are attached and describe how the bar is constructed?

-- Rob
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KELTY360
post Oct 7 2007, 10:07 AM
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That lower firewall is serious sheetmetal porn. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

You da man Jeff! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
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Jeff Hail
post Oct 7 2007, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE(watsonrx13 @ Oct 7 2007, 06:30 AM) *

Very nice photo-documentary on the restoration of this vechile...

Can you show a better photo of where the bars are attached and describe how the bar is constructed?

-- Rob



The bars were constructed of 1x1 square tube 1/8 wall. I welded some turnbuckles in and attached some scrap plate on each end. The anchoring points are the upper seatbelt bolt and in front just inboard of the upper hinge on the inner hinge post below the cowl. If the car was not fully supported from below then the upper hinge would be the best location with the doors off. When I took measurements with the car fully assembled the passenger side was in spec which surprised me. The driver side was wide by another 1/8 inch.

On another note the front floors are in good shape forward of the seat crossmember.. Typical flash rust at the tunnel flanges only. Will clean up easily.
I am replacing the floor behind the crossmember because its gone at the firewall.


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Jeff Hail
post Oct 7 2007, 07:49 PM
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The lower outer firewall is out. I didn't even damage the airtubes removing the old panel. Had to cut the control tubes which will be rebuilt and modified anyway.

The lower inner firewall will need a section lapped and flanged to fit the floor. It's all flat metal- piece of cake.

Tools of the trade.

Ok....the hard work is done (hehe) Its fabrication time.

Some observations. About 1 out of every 10 resistance weld's from the factory had poor or no penetration. Also the flange that connects the lower outer firewall to the longs (between the air tube and inner long) had no welds. It was filled up with seam sealer. I'd swear this tub was assembled at the factory on a Thursday.

Some flash rust here and there but nothing too bad. A Roloc disc will remove most.

Maybe Racer Chris could donate one of his "Raised Pickup Point Kits" for this build....?


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Jeff Hail
post Oct 14 2007, 09:08 PM
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Didn't get much done with the car this week. Busy at work during the week and ended up in bed with the flu Friday night and Saturday. Feel much better except except cannot invert my head to weld due to my sinus's are loaded up. Since I am glutton for punishment and hate being stuck indoors I did some cutting and trimming today. Just felt good to get out and do something.

I added some fixtures for the outer suspension control points. Since I am getting into the rails I need to support this area.

Cut out the old right suspension console and rail (inner long) I truly have a rust free 914 now. Interesting enought these were welded from the factory with stainless wire if not TIG'd. Ate up the cut off disc's really fast.

You guys must be thinking I am nuts? No just on a mission.





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Jeff Hail
post Oct 14 2007, 09:18 PM
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I could have repaired and sectioned the right inner rail. Would have been a lot of work considering how rusted the lower and inner were so I decided to order the rail from AA. The corrugations would have been challenging to reproduce and would have required a lot of cuts and scab metal. Since the 4 cyl mounts are going by-by and the rail will be exposed I said what the "F"? You only live once. The AA part is going to require some fitting. It is rough but the quality is good. I will still reproduce the double wall as the factory did.

The body did not move at all when the rail was cut out. The 914 chassis is still pretty stiff in design when it is just a shell.


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Jeff Hail
post Oct 14 2007, 09:35 PM
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The outer wheelhouse metal is sound. I was surpised that no rust was found at the lower rail area other than flash rust inside the box area. Still solid.

One observation was apparent. The rust issue on 914's is not just from battery acid. The area's below the hellhole are prone to rust because they are also high flex area's. The area's like the hell hole and just behind the seats at the firewall go from very stiffly reinforced structure to single layer metal. This is a flexible area and the paint/ coatings tend to not flex over the cars life and lift exposing the metal to acid, water etc. I have seen many 914's that are sealed better than others. I to this day cannot figure out why they didn't angle the hellhole shelf to drain better than make it flat like a holding pond?


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type11969
post Oct 14 2007, 09:50 PM
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Jeff- nice work, just figured out that you were the same jeff that posted in my thread! Those underbody jigs are nice . . . wish I had them. I may have to pick your brain at some point to figure out a way to line up the front suspension points on my 914. It was in an accident and the drivers quarter (and then some) was replaced right up to the suspension mounting point. It has to have been knocked out of alignment, if not by the accident, then certainly by the (poor) welding.

Keep up the good work!

-Chris
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Jeff Hail
post Oct 14 2007, 11:11 PM
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QUOTE(type11969 @ Oct 14 2007, 08:50 PM) *

Jeff- nice work, just figured out that you were the same jeff that posted in my thread! Those underbody jigs are nice . . . wish I had them. I may have to pick your brain at some point to figure out a way to line up the front suspension points on my 914. It was in an accident and the drivers quarter (and then some) was replaced right up to the suspension mounting point. It has to have been knocked out of alignment, if not by the accident, then certainly by the (poor) welding.

Keep up the good work!

-Chris



Chris,
My 914 has had the right rear suspension console repaired in it's life. It has gobs of welding on the right side. It looked as if it had one of Racer Chris's ear reinforcements installed. It was never treated for corrosion so it rusted out badly. A big 3 inch washer had been welded in to gain some life on the inner ear. It was pretty bad. A dust pan full of rust came out when I cut the console off. It's getting lighter by the day!

Before any cutting I took some measurements. All 914's seems to have some variance at the suspension mounting area's in as much as 1/2 inch measured center to each side. I measured from the center hole at the upper firewall just above the lower firewall seam to the inner console bolt hole. Considering how much rot the right rear console had no sag was found and was equal side to side. The measurement was 28-1/4 from the firewall hole to the front edge of the console bolt hole. I prefer center to center hole measurements but the right console was so far gone I couldnt rely on it. Side to side from inner console to inner console was 33-1/2 from outside to outside on the bolt hole.

I have some measurements from 914World, Pelican and an old Mitchell book. I have still been trying to locate datum (height) measurements to no avail. A this point I am not worried as my car still has consistency side to side. The jigs are a plus as it provides support and a reference point for location with no flex. The body is so light stripped nothing moves.

My front suspension control points were not perfect from the factory. The forward bracket on the body that locate's the front suspension crossmember was about an 1/8 to far back on the right side. The bracket on the suspension crossmember has slotted holes that go to the rear mount so it still fits without binding. A lot of caster and camber adjustment is available on the strut tower it probably doesnt make much difference but I decided to remove and reweld the bracket where it should have been for proper Steering Axis Inclination. My car has not had any structural damage from collision which is a plus but the rust work is plenty to keep me busy.
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tdgray
post Oct 15 2007, 07:56 AM
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Great work Jeff.... great when you get to say... "hey I did it myself"
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type11969
post Oct 15 2007, 08:11 AM
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Jeff-

Thanks for the info. I've tried using the pics on this site before but they are so blurry that it is sometimes tough to figure out what is what. I have plenty to contend with in the rear first before I start worrying about the front again though . . .

-Chris

QUOTE(Jeff Hail @ Oct 14 2007, 09:11 PM) *

QUOTE(type11969 @ Oct 14 2007, 08:50 PM) *

Jeff- nice work, just figured out that you were the same jeff that posted in my thread! Those underbody jigs are nice . . . wish I had them. I may have to pick your brain at some point to figure out a way to line up the front suspension points on my 914. It was in an accident and the drivers quarter (and then some) was replaced right up to the suspension mounting point. It has to have been knocked out of alignment, if not by the accident, then certainly by the (poor) welding.

Keep up the good work!

-Chris



Chris,
My 914 has had the right rear suspension console repaired in it's life. It has gobs of welding on the right side. It looked as if it had one of Racer Chris's ear reinforcements installed. It was never treated for corrosion so it rusted out badly. A big 3 inch washer had been welded in to gain some life on the inner ear. It was pretty bad. A dust pan full of rust came out when I cut the console off. It's getting lighter by the day!

Before any cutting I took some measurements. All 914's seems to have some variance at the suspension mounting area's in as much as 1/2 inch measured center to each side. I measured from the center hole at the upper firewall just above the lower firewall seam to the inner console bolt hole. Considering how much rot the right rear console had no sag was found and was equal side to side. The measurement was 28-1/4 from the firewall hole to the front edge of the console bolt hole. I prefer center to center hole measurements but the right console was so far gone I couldnt rely on it. Side to side from inner console to inner console was 33-1/2 from outside to outside on the bolt hole.

I have some measurements from 914World, Pelican and an old Mitchell book. I have still been trying to locate datum (height) measurements to no avail. A this point I am not worried as my car still has consistency side to side. The jigs are a plus as it provides support and a reference point for location with no flex. The body is so light stripped nothing moves.

My front suspension control points were not perfect from the factory. The forward bracket on the body that locate's the front suspension crossmember was about an 1/8 to far back on the right side. The bracket on the suspension crossmember has slotted holes that go to the rear mount so it still fits without binding. A lot of caster and camber adjustment is available on the strut tower it probably doesnt make much difference but I decided to remove and reweld the bracket where it should have been for proper Steering Axis Inclination. My car has not had any structural damage from collision which is a plus but the rust work is plenty to keep me busy.

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Jeff Hail
post Oct 16 2007, 09:19 PM
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A couple of hours to play today.

Cut the old inner long to prepare for the replacement section at the rear. Measure correctly because you only get one chance. If you cut long you get two chances. If you cut it too short consider eating out.

Perfect cut!
Here are some mock up's of the new panel being held in with Visegrips. Just double checking the fit and then I ran out of daylight.


I use a piece of angle bar stock or anything flat and stiff to backup the old and new panel. This way I know both are level during fitting. When I go to weld I will place bars on all 3 sides of the panel to make sure it is square.


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Jeff Hail
post Oct 16 2007, 09:30 PM
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Rust is a crafty beast. If you can see rust you are only seeing the surface. My rule of thumb has always been you only see 10-20% on the outside. 914's rust from the inside and this is a perfect example. This is the old rear inner long that was cut out. The airtube area is rusted and was destroyed during removal.

From the outside all you see is the perforation down by the floor. On the inside its history. Unless you remove the outer longs you will never know how bad it really is inside. I guess this area can be referred to as south of hell. It's only metal!!!!!!!!!!


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