Installing a V-8...a few questions, Progress thread & 914 makeover Options

[computers4kids]

Thanks to Bruce Stone and all his help, I completed my 5 lug conversion, front and rear. Today I was able to install the wheels and drop the car back on the ground. Still needs a front end alignment but it's ready to roll again.

The car sits with a slight rake, with the back slightly higher. Overall the car is now at a nice ride height, which is about 1/1/4 lower than it was when I had 15s with 60 series tires.


Lastly, also added a bit of more engine bling...Edlebrock Elite series valve covers.

[computers4kids]

Had some more time to work on the project so I worked on the front bumper and valance. Because of how I'm going to paint the car, I decided I needed some more chrome bling. Took off the painted front bumper and adapted a chrome one for my v8 grill and added a Renegade valance.

I have a decent chrome bumper for the back, but I'm hoping to find a gorgeous one.

Picked-up a 914VWPorsche rear badge, but unfortunately it's the wrong color...I need to paint it black or have it chromed.

[JRust]

Hey Mark when are you going to paint that car? Rims look great! Nice choice on the fuchs

[computers4kids]

Nice choice on the fuchs

Nice choice on the fuchs..no chrome, those are highly polished baby!

Yeah, it's getting close to getting some paint, but I want to sort everything out first. I even ditched the stock leather wheel for a sporty one...just for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif)

[TC 914-8]

Hey Mark,
I must say she's looking good. You should have her ready for the 09 ramble. I am originally from So. Cal, so I waiting to see when and where it's going to be. I might make it, on a trailer of course, ( Trailer queen).
But never the less I would love to see your car when it's done, you have done a fine job.

I did pick up a fuel reg. and gauge set up from Jegs, It dropped my pressure from 12psi to 5.5. I can't tell a big difference, but knowing the pressure is right makes me fell it's running better.

Tony

[computers4kids]

Well, I'm just about about of excuses why I haven't painted this tub. Other than having the sail chrome and window channel chrome detailed by a polisher, I'm stuck on how to paint it.

I intended to paint it marathon blue (sliver blue) but still thinking about...

• paint all the valances semi-gloss black or go with body color?
• shave the front turn signals or not?
• Not to sure about the sail panels to paint body color, or cover with vinyl again?
• Paint the top body color or black?
• I'm stuck...can't seem to make a decision!

I need to make some decisions (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
Or...do I just fear finishing this project because I know I'll need to start another (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[JRust]

With the silver blue maybe go with something besides black for the trim. Maybe a charcoal grey or something? Then again silver & black does look pretty dang good. Get your photoshop skills going & see what you like (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)

[computers4kids]

I celebrated Veteran's Day today by shaving my turn signal indicators. Yup...welded them right up and the antenna hole too! I think I'm finally starting to get the hang of welding! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) About time!

[stewteral]

Hey Computer Skids:

I'll offer the answers I can. I started my 914-V8 with Renegade and found that Scottie & crew don't know what they are doing, are NOT car-guys and turn out CRAP from their shop. I have met Scottie and chatted twice and know him to be a USED CAR SALESMAN. Did you know in 2002, there was guy in LA who ran a site for a year just to show the bad work that Renegade did..and he was a specialty car sales shop who had planned on buying 15 Renegade cars.
YES, I am dumping on Renegade, but only to keep you from getting MORE screwed than you are from buying their kit. I really hate dishonest people.
I built my car completely myself and not a SINGLE Renegade part in it! I have a built 383 (500 HP) + 930 trans + 12" x 1.25" Wilwood rotor & 4-piston calipers.
I also welded in a complete rollcage which is a great investment for safety and stiffening the chassis!

Your questions:

There seems to be plenty of room to leave the battery tray in the OEM position, why do many move the location to the trunk?
==> The battery is put in the trunk to help balance the rear weight bias. However,
there are a couple problems: most people put the radiator directly behind the radiator to bake in 200 degree heat...What are they thinkin? If you have room in the engine bay or a corner of the trunk, it will be a great solution. I have tried the trunk and now have it in the passenger footwell, but could not feel the difference in how the car handles....so don't sweat the trunk.

I have the Renegade wiring harness but no diagram...can someone send me a copy?
==> Sorry, I did my own wiring.

The exhaust is headers with twin turbo exhaust. Do you remove the stock exhaust heat sheild...it fits either way. Is it good to leave it or remove it?
==> While I have cut out 1/2 the trunk to install 180 degree headers and don't know exactly what you have, I would recommend KEEPING the heatshields.
There is a LOT of heat in the engine bay and the shields may help from melting
plug wires. I finally had to run mine UNDER the headers.
NOTE: Even though the engine is water cooled, I learned the 30% of the cooling comes from AIR COOLING. On my car, I have completely removed the engine cover and made a replacement completely out of screen. If your 305 is mild, that
won't be necessary, but I would recommend attaching a piece of sheetmetal extending DOWN from the engine crossbar that will force air from under the car
up across the engine and OUT into the LOW pressure area created by the Notch-back roof design. Small cost and effort should be helpful in the Visalia summer heat.

Where do you source your power for the front 'dual fan radiator?' From what I have read it needs to be powered all the time, not switched. Is there a source to tap into in the front trunk or do you run a dedicated line...if so how heavy?
==> I boot-legged power from the under-dash power-distribution and fuse assembly. 2 screws drops it our and you can tap off it, run the power forward to a separate dual fuse block and then wire to each fan. With this approach, if 1 fan fails, you will still have 1 working.

I would really love to see pictures of your V-8 914 front end so see what kind of setup you did for valance and cutting the bumper! I'm good on the fender cuts.
==> Since my car is a barely-street car/track car, I bought the fiberglass nose piece (from a shop that is now gone) and cut as much nose out as I could to get as big of an area as I could. If you can achieve an opening the is 50% of radiator area, you are in great shape. Another thing my engineer bud beat on me about:
to SHROUD the airflow to the radiator and out. I just used sheet aluminum. I exhausted out the bottom of the trunk behind my spoiler (low pressure area) instead of out the wheel wells, but both approaches seem to worl.

Stupid Question: The renegade recommends using #8 1/2 metal screws to attach the brackets that hold the coolant hoses to the bottom of the car. It mentions to be careful not to puncture the fuel lines in the tunnel. How can you tell if your'e going to hit a fuel line or not? ...other than just hoping and guessing?
==> the easy answer is to space the hoses OUTBOARD of the center tunnel. However, this is an area of my BIGGEST disagreement with sloppy Renegade: what happens when you drag the bottom of the car over a bad driveway?
I installed 1-1/2" copper tubing and soldered bends on their path UP the central tunnel, up and under the gas tank into the front trunk..there is room and it wasn't hard to do! You could also run 1-1/2" rubber hose and get it done faster. This approach takes cutting access in the engine-bay firewall and then holes through to the trunk. To get access, I cut open the top of the tunnel (and cleaned out 30 years of rust and gunk) and replaced it with Alu sheet.
BTW: I am using a Mezier Remote Electric water pump which was cheaper than the Renegade mechanical thing. The advantage is that when you are idling in traffic, the electric is pumping at max rate! Constant optimal cooling!

If this is help for you, great. If you would like to email me direct, I'd be glad to tell how I solved problems and have pics to show.
Best of luck,
Terry
stewteral@verizon.net

[computers4kids]

Terry,
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I will probably follow-up on your idea to force air upward into the engine compartment to better cool the engine and disperse some of the heat build-up.

To date, I have move passed many of the questions that I had earlier on. Eventually, I'll probably do something different for the water hoses as you mentioned.

I still need to do something to improve shifting (stock 914 linkage sucks). Likewise, it would be a good idea for me to eventually re-gear my transmission with some taller gears.

If you so inclined, I would love to see some pics of your 914.
Thanks again,
Mark

[JRust]

I for one have been very happy with Renegade hybrids. Are they perfect probably not but they provide a very good service. Especially for those that are not gifted in the fabrication department. I am neither a great wrench nor a real genious when it comes to working on my 914's. Still they spoke to me in terms I could understand. I had no problem with the instalation of their products. I have not done a complete v8 kit thru them. Altough I did buy their radiator kit & am absolutely thrilled with it's performance & fit. Even a self proclaimed idiot like myself was able to install it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif) .

Though I can & do apreciate your skill Terry. I think you could have accomplished the same in your post without the negative comments towards Rengade, their product & staff. Let's keep things positive (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I to would love pics of your work & your car. I have a buick 215 in my 70. I've got quite a list of things I wanted to work on this winter. It is kind of on the backburner as I bought a 74 creamsicle. It is taking my time & money instead of the v8 at this point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

Mark I can't wait to see your car once you paint it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chowtime.gif)

[TC 914-8]

Looks like it's time for Terry to start his own V-8 thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)
I have a Rod Simpson kit( so I can't bag on Renegade) with the radiator lines running thru the rocker panels, I rarely see temps over 180-200. I have seen the electric water pump and think that is the way to go if/ when my side pump fails, also a delay off is even a bigger benefit. I also like the idea of engine compartment baffels. I also stand behind the theory of the low pressure area behind the rear window causing an "Up Flow" thru the engine compartment. I had a side scoop with a fan blowing up thru an intercooler on a supercharged V-6 I built a long time ago. Worked like a champ. You could reach over the back with the top off and feel the heat when crusing down the road.

Mark you have come a long way, it's funny to see your questions being answered 6 mos later. At the time it was the hurtle of the day. Now it's all fluff and soon to be polish. Can't wait to see your car painted.

Tony

[LvSteveH]

Hey Computer Skids:

I'll offer the answers I can. I started my 914-V8 with Renegade and found that Scottie & crew don't know what they are doing, are NOT car-guys and turn out CRAP from their shop. I have met Scottie and chatted twice and know him to be a USED CAR SALESMAN. Did you know in 2002, there was guy in LA who ran a site for a year just to show the bad work that Renegade did..and he was a specialty car sales shop who had planned on buying 15 Renegade cars.
YES, I am dumping on Renegade, but only to keep you from getting MORE screwed than you are from buying their kit. I really hate dishonest people.
I built my car completely myself and not a SINGLE Renegade part in it! I have a built 383 (500 HP) + 930 trans + 12" x 1.25" Wilwood rotor & 4-piston calipers.
I also welded in a complete rollcage which is a great investment for safety and stiffening the chassis!

"However, this is an area of my BIGGEST disagreement with sloppy Renegade: what happens when you drag the bottom of the car over a bad driveway?
I installed 1-1/2" copper tubing and soldered bends on their path UP the central tunnel, up and under the gas tank into the front trunk..there is room and it wasn't hard to do! You could also run 1-1/2" rubber hose and get it done faster. This approach takes cutting access in the engine-bay firewall and then holes through to the trunk. To get access, I cut open the top of the tunnel (and cleaned out 30 years of rust and gunk) and replaced it with Alu sheet.
BTW: I am using a Mezier Remote Electric water pump which was cheaper than the Renegade mechanical thing. The advantage is that when you are idling in traffic, the electric is pumping at max rate! Constant optimal cooling!"

stewteral@verizon.net

There's one in every crowd (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) Maybe he wasn't held enough as a child?

I've lost track of how many V8 conversions I've owned, but I have four right now. Needless to say I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I've probably bought 10 or so conversions that were already done. Two cars were actually built in house at Renegade before I worked there. Of those 10 cars that were already converted, only the two that were converted at Renegade could be driven reliably without ANY additional work.

The first 914 was converted by Renegade in 1990 then in 2006 it had a tall ratio 915 installed and had a few updates. No problems at all. It might as well have been a honda.

The other Renegade in house car I bought was a 911. Basically someone had bought it already converted and it went to Renegade for inspection. Virtually everything had to be redone. Shortly after Renegade finished it the guy needed money for a pending adoption, and I got a nice car at a great price.

When the car was originally brought to Renegade it ended up on the "Wall of shame". For those who don't know, the "Wall of shame" is reserved for conversions that went wrong. That car is actually still on Renegade's website in that section. Ultimately Renegade replaced the front pan, upgraded the cooling, fuel tank, engine, and conversion components. The end result was a very fast car that ran great. I was very happy with the work that Renegade did, and again, that was before I worked there.

Even though the Renegade small block chevy kit has been around for 20 years it has undergone improvements along the way. It currently incorporates the same floating radiator design that the LS1 kit uses, although the flow characteristics are different. The kit is easy to install, well made, and most importantly it just works. The quality of the machined components is world class.

If you're the type of guy that would rather "build everything yourself" you can do that. Some guy built a remarkable Lamborghini replica in his basement. Of course it took him 10 years and he could have just bought a real countach, but he did it on his own terms. If they are properly installed the kits are in no way sloppy or poorly engineered. One real problem is that often a conversion will be represented as a "Renegade conversion" when it actually only has a Renegade adapter plate that's 20 years old. Everything else might be cobbled together.

Every in house car that Renegade builds is done to the customer's specifications. Some guys just want a basic driver that's safe and reliable while others want something show worthy. Most people fall somewhere in the middle. So, as a consequence, some cars are going to be nicer than others. Plenty of jobs get turned down because the scope of work needed exceeds what the customer can either justify of afford. Right now there's a 1997 993 twin turbo getting upgraded to an LS3 and a 1991 928 getting a 640hp LS7, so there’s plenty of high end work going on.

Suggesting that everyone should run their cooling lines inside the center tunnel leaves me scratching my head. First and foremost, that is really invasive, especially for a kit customer. Secondly, your fuel lines run in the center tunnel and putting them in a confined space with 180 degree coolant is a bad idea. Not to mention how much more heat will migrate into the cabin.

I'll be the first to say running the coolant hoses on the underside of the car isn't the most elegant solution, but it works great, it's easy to do, and it's inexpensive. The underside of a 914 has two recesses along the center tunnel that guides the hose and provides 1/2" more ground clearance. If it's done properly it really doesn't look bad. In terms of function, it's a very direct route that minimizes restriction and most importantly it doesn't trap air.

I know of only one person who had an issue with hoses under the car. He didn't see a VERY large speedbump and nearly high-centered his car. It bent one of the hose retainers over and restricted the flow. He reached under the car, bent it back, and went on his way. Regardless of whether you have hoses under the car or not, you're going to look under the car when you hit something like that. Gates green stripe is extremely tuff stuff. Anything that would get through it would probably compromise a copper or aluminum solid line as well. Of course you can't do a quick roadside repair on a solid line.

Unless there’s a back-story behind the animosity, I just don’t get it. The first time I visited Renegade five years ago I was very impressed with the quality and attention to detail. They used almost all new hardware, even on the transmission covers. I’m not saying Renegade is perfect, like any business they are only as good as the guys doing the work. Several previous employees are members of 914world, and I know for a fact they are very competent mechanics and fabricators.

Everyone here loves what they do, even the office manager drives a 914 every day. You won't find many places with more "car guys" (and gals) than Renegade.

Rather than stir something up why don’t you post some pics and details of your car so everyone can admire your work?

[TC 914-8]

Here- Here, good job on the rebuttal.

Now let mark have his thread back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

Let's see the new paint.

[Toast]

Sorry TC. I don't normally do this, so I apologize to you because you tried to Un-hijack this thread. And my apologies to Mark for contiuning the hijack of your very informative thread.

stewteral,

I work for Renegade Hybrids. I am the female that Steve mentioned in his post that ones a 914, which has been my daily driver for the last 5 years. I have been a 914 community member since 2001 and many people here at World know that I would not work for a dishonest, non-reputable company, espically in the Porsche industry.

I am very offended by your statements. Renegade has very knowledgable technicians and do not do sloppy, short-cutting work. I see first hand daily the work that is done on the cars here, and the customers dive away very happy. I know of NO "USED CARS" being sold from here.

The gentleman you mentioned from 2002 was upset because we posted pictures of his car on Renegades website "Wall Of Shame" forum, quote/unquote "without his consent". That was the way he brought the car to us, NOT the work we did on his car.

Enough.
I dont dispute things here and never have. If you want to post pictures of the "sloppy" work that you think was done by Renegade Hybrids, then maybe we will have something to go by. Also, post pics of the wonderful work that you bragged about. Better yet, drive it to the next driving event and i'll tell you what I think in person.

Melba (IMG:style_emoticons/default/toast.gif)


Now can we please get back to Mark's V8 progress thread? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[computers4kids]

The day has come....yep, time to get some paint! I really had to push myself to make it happen...kinda caught-up in how to paint it. Anyway, once I decided on the color scheme, the rest was easy.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif)

Hopefully will have some pics someday.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumb3d.gif)

[TC 914-8]

Good luck Mark, you don't waist any time. What color are you going with?

Keep us posted.

[computers4kids]

In between rain showers, I brought home my 914 from the paint shop. It's pretty gloomy here and getting dark, but here is a couple pictures to get the idea. I had it painted the original color(silver) but for a "74", not 75 which is the year of this car.
L96 Marathon Blue Metallic (base coat, clear coat). In the sun the paint is just beautiful. I'm really looking forward putting all the "bling" back on it. I had much of the the chrome on the car, including the window bars polished.

The really cool thing about picking the car up today, is that 29 years ago today, my wife and I were married and our honeymoon car was a 74 marathon blue 914...how about that for coincidence. I didn't plan it that way. OK...enough about cars, off for a dinner date with my honey. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grouphug.gif)

[JRust]

Lookin sweet! It will be even better once everything is put back together. Keep the pics coming

Hope you take your wife somewhere nice! Congrats on 29 years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jim_hoyland]

Very nice Mark ! Can't wait to see your work of art. Try to make the New Years Hangover Run