Heat exchangers for a six, Who makes the best? Options

[morgan_harwell]

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>[Johny Blackstain, early 2009-ish].
>"Well, the Hayward & Scott exchangers are on their way as of Monday".

How well did the Hayward & Scott SS heat exchangers work out for you?
Did they fit well? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smash.gif)
Do they heat well? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Was it worth your time & $$$ to find them?

Pictures? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

While driving/shivering in to work this morning I thought of this thread.

--Moe--

[Eric_Shea]

Great timing... I think Al's got about 3' of snow he can go run around in to test it out!

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

Here's a pic from the GHL website, the heater shells are much larger than the B&B's

Either there is some magic afoot or they are not equal (& proper) length headers.

These obviously in this configuration would completely rob the engine of power!

JOHN at Stainless systems said that the compound bending to get the exact length for performance would be very labor intensive to make and require a very large bender and therefore he will never make them. (he said when he was here visiting and showing me around a used set we have here)

With that said, Borla in Belgium has developed a set of 1.7 and 2.0 stainless heat exchangers that are dyno tested to give the exact horsepower as the original 914 heat exchangers, but in addition when mated to the custom muffler that they have built will give more. The problem is that the prices quoted for the setup were off the page.
They said that they could duplicate the original 914-6 heat exchangers in stainless and would if the demand was there, offering us exclusive distribution rights for both here in America. The problem was the price. Euros do not convert very well to dollars. How many of us would pay $1200 for a new set of 914 stainless heat exchangers when plenty of sets are still available every day on e bay for 165.00?
With that stated who of us would pay 3500.00 for a set of factory look 914-6 heat exchangers in stainless?

[PanelBilly]

not I and I'm one known to waste money on such things

[Lavanaut]

With that stated who of us would pay 3500.00 for a set of factory look 914-6 heat exchangers in stainless?

They wouldn't be flying out the door George but I bet they'd sell. That's a lot of cash but man, finding a decent set these days, having them repaired and finished - gets expensive. I think given the option plenty of six owners would be willing the shell out the big bucks knowing that their HEs will likely outlast their car. It doesn't hurt that ss HEs seem to be one of those few "acceptable" mods people do that don't hurt much come resale time.

Purely out of curiosity - how much demand would there need to be to start a production run, if you know?

Reid

[number6]

With that stated who of us would pay 3500.00 for a set of factory look 914-6 heat exchangers in stainless?

At this time, in this economy, I think my threshold is ~$2500-2700, shipped. If you can make that happen, George, I'm down for 1 set (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Al, have you been able to test your H&S?

[Johny Blackstain]

My lazy ass still has not put them in yet so I don't know yet. I just finished working on my motorcycle, my Civic & now I've spent the past month digging out of monster snow. I also fuched up when this 47yr old child, who was 5 in 1968, got involved in an on-line RPG that uses phasers & photon torpedoes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . When I do get around to it I'll post & finish this thread.

[amallagh]

I bought a set of the H&S heat exchangers in December 2008 and fitted them in spring 2009, so they have been on for nearly a year now.
The design of mine did not have the pipes crossing over in the heater box (compared to Johnny's which do) which means they have much better ground clearance and look completely flat.
Fit onto the head studs wasn't the best but with a bit of brute force we eventually managed to get them on. It was touch and go if they would need some minor rewelding to make them fit. Now they have been heated up a few times they have relaxed into the correct position so come on and off easily.
I had to send them back to H&S because they hadn't offset the 3 into 1 collectors so the primary headers were very different length. i.e the 3 into 1 collectors had been welded on the same distance from the rear flange connection to the rear box. They had been described to me as equal length headers. The design of the tube forms in the box doesn't make them equal length but having had the collector on one side repositioned then they are much closer in length then they were. Quality of the welding seems good and the rounded heater box design makes them look much better then some other aftermarket ones. The ground clearance is also excellent on my rally car. As for heating, then they are very good. Roof off motoring in the depths of winter not problem.
As for air flow performance then they seem OK. This was a concern given they are 'not quite' equal length primary headers but after the collector was repositioned there is only a few inches difference between the longest and shortest. I have a tuned 2.4 motor running PMO carbs (9.4:1 compression) and the power output on the rolling road was identical running on Bursch equal length headers as it is now with the H&S heat exchangers (202bhp). The power and torque curves are almost identical to what they were before with no flat spots.

Pluses -
Weld quality
Neat non boxy design
Good ground clearance (very important for me)
Excellent heat
Engine performance not affected compared to equal length Bursch headers

Cons -
Poor initial fit to head studs
Design is not quite equal length headers but not too bad with collectors positioned properly.

I was disappointed with them initially because of the fit and the fact I had to get H&S to move the collector, but now they are in and running I am very pleased with them. I am still not aware of another stainless 914/6 heat exchanger set I'd choose in preference as all the designs available seem to have some major shortcoming.
If George's idea of some stainless replicas of the originals had been available when I bought these then I'd have bought a set but still not sure I would have paid more than £1200.($1800)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

With that stated who of us would pay 3500.00 for a set of factory look 914-6 heat exchangers in stainless?

They wouldn't be flying out the door George but I bet they'd sell. That's a lot of cash but man, finding a decent set these days, having them repaired and finished - gets expensive. I think given the option plenty of six owners would be willing the shell out the big bucks knowing that their HEs will likely outlast their car. It doesn't hurt that ss HEs seem to be one of those few "acceptable" mods people do that don't hurt much come resale time.

Purely out of curiosity - how much demand would there need to be to start a production run, if you know?

Reid

Reid 100 sets presold would do it. That is what they told me. Still have to deal with that TERRIBLE to buy exchange rate though

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

I will try to get and post a picture of the stainless four cylinder exchanger and muffler combination that Borla has come up with

With that stated who of us would pay 3500.00 for a set of factory look 914-6 heat exchangers in stainless?

At this time, in this economy, I think my threshold is ~$2500-2700, shipped. If you can make that happen, George, I'm down for 1 set (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Al, have you been able to test your H&S?

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

Here is a picture of the four cylinder heat exchanger muffler system just developed for us by Bosal:
(IMG:http://www.autoatlanta.com/g/silencer.jpg)