Someone pissed off Jake & Len, replicating LE heads Options

[biosurfer1]

Was he trying to replicate them for his own use or did he say he was going to try and sell them?

[Chris Hamilton]

Was he trying to replicate them for his own use or did he say he was going to try and sell them?

Either the port designs are patented and the guy is trying to copy them
-or-
The guy was selling them to people under a trademarked brand ( assuming LE is a trademark )


-IF- either of those are true, the guy is gonna get what's coming to him. If neither are true this is a case of legal bullying. You can copy the shit out of a design that isn't patented, and you can call it whatever you want if the brand isn't a trademark.

[CliffBraun]

Was he trying to replicate them for his own use or did he say he was going to try and sell them?

Either the port designs are patented and the guy is trying to copy them
-or-
The guy was selling them to people under a trademarked brand ( assuming LE is a trademark )


-IF- either of those are true, the guy is gonna get what's coming to him. If neither are true this is a case of legal bullying. You can copy the shit out of a design that isn't patented, and you can call it whatever you want if the brand isn't a trademark.

QFT. All jake can do if neither of those is true is talk about it online and hope to discourage buyers.

[flippa]

Kick their ass Jake!!!!!! Take no prisoners!!!!

I have had my work copied. They say ithat immitation is the greatest form of flattery, but that is bullshit!

It's just a creap trying to save and/or make a quick buck & cheat you out of your money, and it sucks!

Bury them!

[brer]

Was he trying to replicate them for his own use or did he say he was going to try and sell them?

did he even touch them? whats actually been stolen?

I hope this isn't all because of something some girl said.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


(uh, humor)

[Jake Raby]

Mr. Hamilton,
Are you a Lawyer or just a regular smart ass?

I have already been through this and I KNOW what is involved and what my rights are.

What matters right now is the person was busted before he was able to do any real harm. I made the post on my forum to make our following aware that this had occurred and now thousands of people are watching out for us all over the World.

Let the fact be known that the opinions or comments made by those on this forum mean nothing as none of you here have all the facts, nor do you understand the composition of my business- (nor is it any of your business what I do, how I do it or why)

No matter what occurs legally, copying our components or anyone elses isn't cool.

There is a possibility that some replication has already occured from one of our profiles, the plot was foiled as the person was attempting to copy a 200CFM port.

So, let me deal with this, if I wanted to field the smart ass comments from the armchair Lawyers here I would have posted the info here-

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Nov 25 2008, 09:56 PM

[TimT]

While a cylinder head design or port arrangement can't be patented

wait didn't you post that? on your own site? just breaking balls...

funny

[PeeGreen 914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

[DBCooper]

Now lets address this:

Ididn't either, but that won't go anywhere. Without a patent there's no "intellectual property" to protect.

Absolutely incorrect. People that think this haven't spent the money and time on the topic that I have.

Incorrect? Don't think so, Jake. Part of my job is doing exactly that, and has been for the last twenty years.

The LE series heads are a branded component that is the intellectual property of HAM and RAT. These are components that are utilized to create engines and engine kits that are proprietary to our companies, these engines can't be patented. There is virtually no way to patent a port shape or process, not for us or anyone else. BUT these ports are branded and part of a pedigreed assembly that is recognized Internationally- all of these things matter in this case, just like they did with my DTM.

Then "branded" as you're using the word would mean trademarked, and that's also intellectual property, but totally different than a patented innovation. So are you talking about this fellow actually using the RAT trademark on his parts? If that's it, and you've registered that trademark, then you would have a case.

I learned all about this in 2004 when someone got busted replicating my DTM. He **thought** that since the shroud wasn't patented that there was nothing I could do about it. I ran his ass underground and proved him very wrong.

So, we'll let the legal staff do their part- they get paid very well for what they do because they are the best, boldest, most aggressive team of assholes I could find- they specialize in this and I keep them on retainer.

Stromberg? Now THAT is something totally different. Sure, you can outspend someone else by showering them with lawsuits that everyone knows you would never win, but since it's so much cheaper for them to settle than to fight their counsel would suggest that they throw in the towel. That's legal bullying, and I guess you could call that a win if you like, but it's nothing to do with intellectual property or the merits of the case.

At any rate, we take all of this seriously, some may call it drama, but they haven't ever worked their entire fucking life to achieve a goal only for some worthless son of a bitch to steal it.

Unlike others in this Industry, Len and I are not retiring soon and we are continuing to carry forward momentum with everything we do. All we can do is constantly keep our eyes and ears open and do what we can to provide security for our developments.

Then you need to file for patents on patentable innovations, but I'm sure your attorneys have already told you that. No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual property, and no basis for a lawsuit.

Len's earlier post had better explanations for why no one will be able to copy your products, and that's the "unapparent" technologies and processes. It takes time, skill, and experience to put together that sort of package, and no one will be able to duplicate that with just a CNC machine.

Reality check. Is there any real proof of any of this? Or is it all just hearsay and speculation?

[biosurfer1]

Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to understand all of this since intellectual property is quite fascinating to me...

Jake is producing the heads based on the original Porsche heads with modifications he/Len have developed right?

Could Porsche have the same claim against Jake since he is making the heads on the CNC machine now?

How much does something have to be modified before its considered "different"...I believe a former boss of mine had this problem once when he tried to patent his idea, the patent office rejected it because it was "too easily modified" (I think that was the reasoning"

[DBCooper]

Porsche would have a better claim against Jake than Jake would have against whoever is copying Jake's modifications, but since nothing in the whole chain is patentable no one would ever "win" anything in a lawsuit. Unless someone who has the deepest pockets decides it's worth their while to put someone else out of business.

Edit: Volkswagen would have a better claim, not Porsche.

[CliffBraun]

Not trying to stir the pot here, just trying to understand all of this since intellectual property is quite fascinating to me...

Jake is producing the heads based on the original Porsche heads with modifications he/Len have developed right?

Could Porsche have the same claim against Jake since he is making the heads on the CNC machine now?

How much does something have to be modified before its considered "different"...I believe a former boss of mine had this problem once when he tried to patent his idea, the patent office rejected it because it was "too easily modified" (I think that was the reasoning"

He modifies original castings, or like original castings from another source.
I'd also believe that nothing in the Jake's (or Porsche's) would not be covered by some prior art.

Porsche would have a better claim against Jake than Jake would have against whoever is copying Jake's modifications, but since nothing in the whole chain is patentable no one would ever "win" anything in a lawsuit. Unless someone who has the deepest pockets decides it's worth their while to put someone else out of business.

This, too.

[LarryR]

I was cloned and had my software engineering secrets mass produced and provided to the general public in the form of how to do X, Y, Z the right way.

Follow on actions included patenting my secret beer consumption methods, procrastination extrodinare skills for idiots was published, how to hang out on car forums 101 was blogged... F*&^% I was violated.

Eventually my slacker 101 skills took over the clone and he was rendered useless. He had an endless desire to improve his beer consumption skills and unplug his remote control flow.

S&*&^% then he married the same kind of woman I did and he sued my a$$ ... I was like WTF... The complaint was something along the lines of dishes, yard maintanence and work come before hobbies had caused him undue stress and were at odds with his ingrained natural instincts and it was all my fault!!!!

So I can sympothize but I figure just keep the lawyers out of it and settle it old school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) Let discretion be the determining factor in that.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

It is assumed that it is realized that this is an attempt to make light of a serious situation in hopes of making one laugh to realize that life is too short to get to pissed off for to long ... If said disclaimer is not taken to heart reread... and if you dont laugh provide suggestions

[SirAndy]

No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual property

False!

I've been through this personally.
You can have a valid claim for "intellectual property" without a patent or trademark.

BTDT

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

[championgt1]

Kick their ass Jake!!!!!! Take no prisoners!!!!

I have had my work copied. They say ithat immitation is the greatest form of flattery, but that is bullshit!

It's just a creap trying to save and/or make a quick buck & cheat you out of your money, and it sucks!

Bury them!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) +1

[CliffBraun]

No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual property

False!

I've been through this personally.
You can have a valid claim for "intellectual property" without a patent or trademark.

BTDT

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

Well, not to really argue this, but I assume you're talking about copyright, which isn't anything close to the issue here.

I also am curious about the fact that it now takes registration to view the original thread on Jake's site. I'm interested in more details, but do not really need another account.

[Chris Hamilton]

Mr. Hamilton,
Are you a Lawyer or just a regular smart ass?


So, let me deal with this, if I wanted to field the smart ass comments from the armchair Lawyers here I would have posted the info here-

I know the difference between actually breaking the law and suing someone in an attempt to bankrupt them from legal fees. You didn't mention a single real law being broken, you just keep making unfounded claims and talking about how badass your lawyers are.

[SirAndy]

which isn't anything close to the issue here

I never said that i was referring to Jake's case. I was simply pointing out that "DBCooper" made a comment that in itself is not true.

As you can see from my post, i was quoting "DBCooper" directly and did not refer to Jake at all ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Andy

[NineOneFour]

No patent, no trademark, then no intellectual property

False!

I've been through this personally.
You can have a valid claim for "intellectual property" without a patent or trademark.

BTDT

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Andy

Well, not to really argue this, but I assume you're talking about copyright, which isn't anything close to the issue here.

I also am curious about the fact that it now takes registration to view the original thread on Jake's site. I'm interested in more details, but do not really need another account.

Not to worry, I went to register and recieved this message... "Sorry, registration has been disabled by the administrator."

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

[G e o r g e]

registration is down due to spammer attacks