Cheap, simple, non-factory FI solution, parts, etc..., Type IV - This oughta be fun... Options

[JWest]

I've got a couple of Megasquirt 1 kits. You can have one if you want to go that path.

[Gint]

That would be awesome James. I can't take it for free though. I'll send a PM to discuss.

[wobbletop]

Sorry to thread hi-jack... I'm a newb, but I have a 3.0L that has been converted to carbs. I'd love to be able to convert it to a modern FI system, but wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Anyone have any links that would get me started? Should I be looking in the 911 forums instead?

Thanks.

[zymurgist]

You might want to start a new thread on that topic...

I'm no expert on the Porsche flat-6, but you need to find out (if you don't already know) what cams are installed on your engine. I'm pretty sure that CIS cams are different from cams that would be used with carbs.

[Gint]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) A little more specialized and I'd like to keep this thread focused on the 4 cylinder.

[DNHunt]

I've now worked with MS1, MS2 and SDS. I've now run all tree for quite awhile over the years and all three have survived long road trips (2000 + miles each). The cheapest is MS1 and it will work pretty darn well. I ran it doing fuel only and used a Pertronix triggering an MSD 6a for ignition on a 2056. I enjoyed that. I felt it had more low end torque but, I couldn't prove it. I did have it dynoed and the guy who did that coaxed a couple more hp out of it so, I think road tuning probably leaves a little performance on the table.

As McMark said earlier, the harness is the real challenge with either MS. When I had failures and I did like crapping out in rush hour traffic a couple of times it was always harness or connector related. Once I broke a wire and the other time the connector came loose. There is shielding that needs to be done and I think MS is more susceptible to electromagnetic interference than SDS, but, it can be overcome.

My only complaint with the system is the correction for intake air temperature. It is extrapolated from 3 resistance, temperature pairs and I found that the air fuel mixtures varied with temperature because of that. The intake air temp in my setup would really vary as the sensor was in the plenum in the stock location and it was subject to heat soak. So, whether the correction was off because of the location of the sensor or the table generated by the program, it was off.

MS, either one, is a tinker's dream. I found I was always getting my laptop out and messing with it cause there was always something new to try. That's not necessarily bad but you got to like that kind of stuff.

If I wanted cheap, I'd find a 2 liter intake, get 1.8 injectors cause they have much better connectors and new connectors to fit them are available (they will put out plenty of fuel). I'd move the intake air sensor to the snorkel. I'd go to a pick and pull and find a workable TPS. I'd use the stock AAR for warmup. I'd buy a MS1 kit and a relay board and start soldering. Then I would schedule a bunch of time to tinker with it and tune it. It will cost more than you plan on unless you work with someone who has done this before. Plan on some dyno time with a tuner if you can.

I think the trade off is your money or your time. I think MS works and probably just as well as most systems, I just think it is way more work.

Dave

[Gint]

Thanks Dave. Harness huh... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) I've heard that twice now. I hadn't thought about it that much yet. Hmmm...

I can be anal about wiring. I don't love it, but I can do it. At least if I'm building my own I'll know what I have.

This post has been edited by Gint: Jun 6 2009, 10:45 PM

[sww914]

Thanks for starting a great thread. Long overdue in hindsight.

[Phoenix-MN]

How about the MicroSquirt system

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-c-35.html

[r_towle]

Sorry to thread hi-jack... I'm a newb, but I have a 3.0L that has been converted to carbs. I'd love to be able to convert it to a modern FI system, but wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Anyone have any links that would get me started? Should I be looking in the 911 forums instead?

Thanks.

Contact Autosport Engineering in Stow MA.
A porsche shop.

They have designed and built a bolt on setup to bring 911's back to FI.

Rich

[lotus_65]

Sorry to thread hi-jack... I'm a newb, but I have a 3.0L that has been converted to carbs. I'd love to be able to convert it to a modern FI system, but wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Anyone have any links that would get me started? Should I be looking in the 911 forums instead?

Thanks.

Contact Autosport Engineering in Stow MA.
A porsche shop.

They have designed and built a bolt on setup to bring 911's back to FI.

Rich

thats cool,
too bad the return probably isn't there to do it for the T-IV's!

[puff adder]

I found this company while looking for ITB's for my car.

Modular, can be configured for just about anything, and a LOT less than anything else available.

They're called "extrudabody". They also have intersting manifolds and adaptors.

I posted in the link thread also by accident.

[crash914]

I have also ran mine as a piggy back system on the stock 2L set up.

fuel only, stock manifold and intake, I made new connectors for the FI injectors and plugged into the ms. I don't remember what I did about the tps, either i mounted a new one in place of the stock or did not use it. Ran it this way for some time. no major problems were encountered. if I did, i could just plug back in the stock system...easy...

[Cevan]

If I wanted cheap, I'd find a 2 liter intake, get 1.8 injectors cause they have much better connectors and new connectors to fit them are available (they will put out plenty of fuel). I'd move the intake air sensor to the snorkel. I'd go to a pick and pull and find a workable TPS. I'd use the stock AAR for warmup. I'd buy a MS1 kit and a relay board and start soldering. Then I would schedule a bunch of time to tinker with it and tune it. It will cost more than you plan on unless you work with someone who has done this before. Plan on some dyno time with a tuner if you can.

I think the trade off is your money or your time. I think MS works and probably just as well as most systems, I just think it is way more work.

Dave

In that case, why not just find a working L-Jet setup. They can't be more than $250-300. ECU's and AFMs rarely fail, so if you're using 1.8 injectors, TPS and an AAR, what else is left but the harness?

[charliew]

It's the programming for the different motor configurations that the aftermarket stuff works better over factory ecus. You can always improve performance if the individual motor is custom tuned.

[Gint]

So, I'm thinking that the way to do this might be something like this. Just spitballin here...

1. phaseI would be a homebuilt ECU and a bastardized stock setup. That would get the car up and running on FI the cheapest and quickest. It would also start a learning curve for me that I could use for the later phases.
2. phaseII (tinker phase) could add different components to educate me a little more and keep the car on the road because I could revert back to the running system if need be.
3. phaseIII could add spiffy TB/manifold stuff and really customize the system.

[Gint]

How about the MicroSquirt system

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/microsquirt-c-35.html

How about it? Anyone have any experience with it?

[underthetire]

Think it's pretty much the same as the MS2. Just in a smaller package. Not repairable at home because of the surface mount components. I'm running MS2 with coil control. Its takes playing around with it and be prepared to learn. You can not just solder it together and go. Download the manual now and read up on it. Then decide. I did mine in stages as well, first just fuel, now i'm doing ignition. Next step is a modern throttle body with air regulator control for the idle circuit. I am using all GM sensors ( most of it is Bosch anyway) with the stock 1.7 injectors. Get the MS2 or Micro for stock injectors, you won't need the resistors for the low impedance injectors. Also the MS2 gives you a lot more options for ignition. The wire harness is available or I made my own in a few hours.

Be prepared for additional costs either way, you will need connectors for the sensors and the sensors themselves. If you need help with connectors, just PM me, my neighbor has 5 five gallon cans full of stock GM connectors. I'm sure we could dig something up.

Good luck

[jd74914]

I've used Microsquirt. Its not too difficult to learn, but as stated you cannot change out components. I don't really have experience with any other PEFI so I have nothing to base the experience off of, but I would definately use it again.

The only part I didn't like was that the computer could only support 2 fuel and ignition outputs. I would have prefered 4 for sequential injection/ignition, but batch fire works fine too. I used it on a bike motor, and the only other annoying feature was that I couldn't get it to read the stock Honda cam position sensor. Since you are limited to batch firing anyways that wasn't a big deal. It only took 1 or 2 more rotations to sync.

[McMark]

The system I have been posting about uses MicroSquirt. I LOVE it.

The motor it's on runs, but still needs a few tweaks.