Fuel Tank Crud? Redoing Fuel Lines, Etc. Options

[neil30076]

Yes...I have a rotorin there. Is it touching the contact? No idea...I'm too big to get in there with it. Tried that with the refrigerator once to see if the light really goes out.

The points are not new, but they are opening, and showed good dwell (46 ish) before the car crapped out. I guess I'll do points and condensor tomorrow.

With 12V to the coil and not even a stumble on one cylinder I'm betting you won't see a spark. I'd check the easy stuff first. Check your cap and rotor. See if the contacts are burnt up and cruddy.

Check your coil wire too. Your looking for something that would affect all 4 cylinders.

You do have a rotor in there don't you?
and
the center carbon contact is touching it!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Did you check this from my previous post?
1)Pull the wire from the coil to the distributor/ condenser ( the - or number 1 terminal) put your meter on a voltage range, say 20v, and put it between the #1 terminal and the engine metal, turn on the ingition, does it show 12v? Turn off ignition.
2) take a piece of wire and hook it to #1 termial, turn on ignition, and very briefly flash the loose end of the wire to engine metal, did you see a spark from the wire? Turn off ignition
3) leave the wire attached, pull the center spark plug wire from the distributor and put an old spark plug on it. Lay it on the engine so it touches the metal well - not to paint!
4) Repeat #2, does the plug spark when you flash the wire to the metal?

[jmill]

Right now I'd just look at the simple stuff. Pull off the cap and rotor and check their condition. Is the tip of the rotor burnt up and dirty. Check the inside of the cap. Check the contacts. Are they burnt up and dirty. If so buy new ones. You can clean up what you have now for kicks. Take some emory cloth and shine them up. Wipe them clean so you don't have tracking. Check that your points aren't buggered up and that the gap is correct. Check the resistance of your coil wire. It should show no resistance on the ohm scale.

[neil30076]

Right now I'd just look at the simple stuff. Pull off the cap and rotor and check their condition. Is the tip of the rotor burnt up and dirty. Check the inside of the cap. Check the contacts. Are they burnt up and dirty. If so buy new ones. You can clean up what you have now for kicks. Take some emory cloth and shine them up. Wipe them clean so you don't have tracking. Check that your points aren't buggered up and that the gap is correct. Check the resistance of your coil wire. It should show no resistance on the ohm scale.

To help Ken understand what you mean when you say - Check the resistance of your coil wire. It should show no resistance on the ohm scale. - I assume you mean the wire from the switch to 15 on the coil.
Assuming its a standard 3 - 4 ohm coil, then I = v/r says it draws around 3.0 amps, so to check the wire can handle the draw you would need to put a high wattage bulb, around w = (I^2)*r or 30watts, to test that the wire can handle the surge load.
The coil primary has a resistance of around 3 - 4 ohm, the secondary, the high side has a resistance way above 6000, to give a step up of 2000:1.
The easy test for a high resistance feed on pin 15 is to remove the wire on 15 and jump it straight back to the battery +ve, then try and start the car. Don't leave it this way for long or the coil may fry if the points are closed or shorted.

[kenshapiro2002]

In helping me to uderstand you totally caused my head to spin (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) No idea what "from the switch to 15 on the coil means" What switch? 15 on the coil? What is 15 referring to?

Anyway, I changed the coil out today for a new one to no avail.

Haven't had the time yet to try the stuff you mentioned before (doing parenting), but I'll get to it tomorrow...thanks. Gonna replace condensor, points, rotor and cap. Then I'll replace the car and everything will be fine.

Right now I'd just look at the simple stuff. Pull off the cap and rotor and check their condition. Is the tip of the rotor burnt up and dirty. Check the inside of the cap. Check the contacts. Are they burnt up and dirty. If so buy new ones. You can clean up what you have now for kicks. Take some emory cloth and shine them up. Wipe them clean so you don't have tracking. Check that your points aren't buggered up and that the gap is correct. Check the resistance of your coil wire. It should show no resistance on the ohm scale.

To help Ken understand what you mean when you say - Check the resistance of your coil wire. It should show no resistance on the ohm scale. - I assume you mean the wire from the switch to 15 on the coil.
Assuming its a standard 3 - 4 ohm coil, then I = v/r says it draws around 3.0 amps, so to check the wire can handle the draw you would need to put a high wattage bulb, around w = (I^2)*r or 30watts, to test that the wire can handle the surge load.
The coil primary has a resistance of around 3 - 4 ohm, the secondary, the high side has a resistance way above 6000, to give a step up of 2000:1.
The easy test for a high resistance feed on pin 15 is to remove the wire on 15 and jump it straight back to the battery +ve, then try and start the car. Don't leave it this way for long or the coil may fry if the points are closed or shorted.

[kenshapiro2002]

On test #3...is the "center spark plug wire" you refer to actually the wire from the coil to the distributor?

Used a timing light...nothing.

Take a spare plug, remove one of the plug wires from the engine and hook up the spare plug. Make sure the body of the plug is well grounded to the engine, use copper wire to tie it down to something if needed. crank the car and watch the plug for a spark - let us know what you see, or don't!
OR
if you have a timing light hook it and and crank the engine, does it flash?

Ok, so lets recap - no apparent spark, new coil, points, etc.
I assume you have a test meter that really works (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
1)Pull the wire from the coil to the distributor/ condenser ( the - or number 1 terminal) put your meter on a voltage range, say 20v, and put it between the #1 terminal and the engine metal, turn on the ingition, does it show 12v? Turn off ignition.
2) take a piece of wire and hook it to #1 termial, turn on ignition, and very briefly flash the loose end of the wire to engine metal, did you see a spark from the wire? Turn off ignition
3) leave the wire attached, pull the center spark plug wire from the distributor and put an old spark plug on it. Lay it on the engine so it touches the metal well - not to paint!
4) Repeat #2, does the plug spark when you flash the wire to the metal?
LMK

[neil30076]

[quote name='kenshapiro2002' date='Aug 25 2009, 05:51 PM' post='1207192']
In helping me to uderstand you totally caused my head to spin (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) No idea what "from the switch to 15 on the coil means" What switch? 15 on the coil? What is 15 referring to?

Anyway, I changed the coil out today for a new one to no avail.

Haven't had the time yet to try the stuff you mentioned before (doing parenting), but I'll get to it tomorrow...thanks. Gonna replace condensor, points, rotor and cap. Then I'll replace the car and everything will be fine.
>>>>
Ken, 1 and 15 are the numbers on the coil, and you must have them connected correctly do you have then reversed by chance - 1 goes to the distributor/condenser and tach, 15 goes to the battery via the ignition switch!
ken PM and i'll give you my phone number, feel free to call me and i'll work you through this -

[rjames]

This might be lame suggestion, but make sure that the rotor is installed properly. I just installed new points two days ago and setting the dwell meant I had to remove and install the rotor several times. On 3 occaisions I didn't have the rotor orientated correctly/seated all the way but I thought I did because I was able to put the dist cap on. Of course the car wouldn't start.

[jmill]

I didn't want to confuse the guy with ohms law. I just wanted him to check that the coil wire (wire from the coil to the distributor) was good ( big one that looks like a plug wire but isn't). Flip your meter to ohms and touch a lead to each side of the wire. If the needle doesn't move you found your problem.

I'm talking simple and easy stuff. I'm not splitting atoms or nothing.

[kenshapiro2002]

Now I understanf what the "1" and "15" are referring to. What the hell do the numbers refer to? Why not just use (+) and (-) ? Anyway...yes, my (+) is going to my ignition, and my (-) has two leads attached...the one to the condensor/dizzy and what I assume is a ground coming off the same bundle of wires as the ignition wire. Thanks for the PM / phone number offer...will do.


[quote name='neil30076' date='Aug 25 2009, 08:59 PM' post='1207197']
[quote name='kenshapiro2002' date='Aug 25 2009, 05:51 PM' post='1207192']
In helping me to uderstand you totally caused my head to spin (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) No idea what "from the switch to 15 on the coil means" What switch? 15 on the coil? What is 15 referring to?

Anyway, I changed the coil out today for a new one to no avail.

Haven't had the time yet to try the stuff you mentioned before (doing parenting), but I'll get to it tomorrow...thanks. Gonna replace condensor, points, rotor and cap. Then I'll replace the car and everything will be fine.
>>>>
Ken, 1 and 15 are the numbers on the coil, and you must have them connected correctly do you have then reversed by chance - 1 goes to the distributor/condenser and tach, 15 goes to the battery via the ignition switch!
ken PM and i'll give you my phone number, feel free to call me and i'll work you through this -
[/quote]

[kenshapiro2002]

Thought you might be right for a minute there, but the circumstances were that I was driving her for quite a while before she started to crap out on me so the rotor must have been on right, right? When I removed it awhile ago, I made sure I turned it until it seated downward.

This might be lame suggestion, but make sure that the rotor is installed properly. I just installed new points two days ago and setting the dwell meant I had to remove and install the rotor several times. On 3 occaisions I didn't have the rotor orientated correctly/seated all the way but I thought I did because I was able to put the dist cap on. Of course the car wouldn't start.

[kenshapiro2002]

As a recently retired teacher, I must commend you on your ability to step down to the level of the learner! I just did as directed and the resistance was approx. 4,200 something-or-others! Might as well do the other tests...see ya'll soon. Thanks again.

I didn't want to confuse the guy with ohms law. I just wanted him to check that the coil wire (wire from the coil to the distributor) was good ( big one that looks like a plug wire but isn't). Flip your meter to ohms and touch a lead to each side of the wire. If the needle doesn't move you found your problem.

I'm talking simple and easy stuff. I'm not splitting atoms or nothing.

[neil30076]

Now I understanf what the "1" and "15" are referring to. What the hell do the numbers refer to?

The numbers are industry standard for wiring connections, like the numbers on a relay.
>>
Good point jmill,

The main wire from the center of the coil ( the high voltage) could well be shot - easy test, pull it from the distributor, lay it close to the engine metal and crank the engine, no sparky - bad cable, maybe .

[jmill]

One good thing is your problem is limited to a small area. It's electrical (unless you broke your dizzy - does the rotor turn with starter?) and it's from the coil output to the dizzy cap. Not too much there. Cap, rotor, points, condenser and one wire.

[neil30076]

One good thing is your problem is limited to a small area. It's electrical (unless you broke your dizzy - does the rotor turn with starter?) and it's from the coil output to the dizzy cap. Not too much there. Cap, rotor, points, condenser and one wire.

And if someone local was there to help, who understands the electrical side, this would have been fixed in a few minutes. I'm always amazed that long distance help on 914 boards is easy to get, local, not so. I'm on the 928 BB's as well, and you only have to ask for help and everyone local wants to show up!

[jmill]

I hear you Neil. On the West coast thats true. In the past 10 years of living in Wi I've only seen one teener. Local guys by me are 100 miles away.

[kenshapiro2002]

OK...back from the gay-raj and I'm actually learning and having a blast. Here's what happened:

1. Rotor definitely is spinning.
2. Pulled the wires from the (-), coil side of the coil and it shows 12v.
3. Attached a wire to the same terminal, flashed it to the engine and it sparked.
4. Put an old plug on the dizzy end of the coil-to-dizzy wire and laid it on the engine. The wire used above still sparked when touched to the engine.

[kenshapiro2002]

I live right outside of Baltimore, major US city, and I see Ray Lewis more often than I see other 914s. I know of one other that sites within a 20 mile radius. I probably see 2-3 a year (of course, I've been seeing mine every 15 minutes).

I hear you Neil. On the West coast thats true. In the past 10 years of living in Wi I've only seen one teener. Local guys by me are 100 miles away.

[neil30076]

I live right outside of Baltimore, major US city, and I see Ray Lewis more often than I see other 914s. I know of one other that sites within a 20 mile radius. I probably see 2-3 a year (of course, I've been seeing mine every 15 minutes).

I hear you Neil. On the West coast thats true. In the past 10 years of living in Wi I've only seen one teener. Local guys by me are 100 miles away.

PROGRESS -
2. Pulled the wires from the (-), coil side of the coil and it shows 12v.
3. Attached a wire to the same terminal, flashed it to the engine and it sparked.
4. Put an old plug on the dizzy end of the coil-to-dizzy wire and laid it on the engine.
The wire used above still sparked when touched to the engine.

>>>
but if you did #4, did the spark plug fire ? i'm stil thinking jmill is correct, bad coil to dizzy wire!!!

[neil30076]

I hear you Neil. On the West coast thats true. In the past 10 years of living in Wi I've only seen one teener. Local guys by me are 100 miles away.

Jmill, And you know what - i see at least one almost every day and i don' t know who they are - always on the move - they do tend to be way more runners rather than up on jacks out here !
+Lets get ken rolling - under power that is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[kenshapiro2002]

Didn't see the plug fire (didn't even look). Sorry...didn't think your instructions asked for that...I'll check tomorrow. The coil to dizzy wire is brand new. Tried the old one today and it made no difference.

I live right outside of Baltimore, major US city, and I see Ray Lewis more often than I see other 914s. I know of one other that sites within a 20 mile radius. I probably see 2-3 a year (of course, I've been seeing mine every 15 minutes).

I hear you Neil. On the West coast thats true. In the past 10 years of living in Wi I've only seen one teener. Local guys by me are 100 miles away.

PROGRESS -
2. Pulled the wires from the (-), coil side of the coil and it shows 12v.
3. Attached a wire to the same terminal, flashed it to the engine and it sparked.
4. Put an old plug on the dizzy end of the coil-to-dizzy wire and laid it on the engine.
The wire used above still sparked when touched to the engine.

>>>
but if you did #4, did the spark plug fire ? i'm stil thinking jmill is correct, bad coil to dizzy wire!!!