I saw a car in the classifieds that has a Corvair 6 engine swap with the engine set up to run in the correct dirrection.I was wondering why we don't see this conversion very often.Seems like a pretty straight forward conversion.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=114974

i suspect it's because there's not a lot of power to be had. for the same amount of conversion work, you could use a porsche flat 6. slightly more for a water cooled motor like small chevy or the increasingly popular subie.

paul

The Porsche flat 6 (depending on the engine) can be nearly a bolt up conversion, without too many hoops to jump through. A good Porsche flat 6 is a very durable engine too.

The other thing, is most 914's lust after 914-6's hence the desire for using a factory engine.

The Corvair engine is probably too rare to be popular.

The Corvair is much less expensive to purchase than a flat porshe 6 A rebuilt Corvair motor can be had for $3k a core porsche 6 cost about that a 3.0 would be double that.The Corvair motor does not require the expensive sheet metal, oil tank, and lines, that are required for the porsche 6 conversion.So I don't think it would be as expensive as a porsche 6.Corvair engines can make from 140 to 200 hp so the power is compareable to a flat 6 porsche.The argument that it's under powered and the same amount of work and similarly priced dosen't seem to hold water.Ther has to be some other reason(s)

Perhaps Dr Evil will chime in. He has a Corvair engine in his bus.

Your values on Porsche 911 Cores are way off. Plus a 914-6 Conversion with a good 911 Engine is always going to be desirable and have a Marketplace - a PoorCor, not so much

Not sure what you mean by 911 core prices being off from what I see $6k seems about right for a 3.0 by the time you add the sheetmetal oil tank and lines and sourse a mount you are easily @ $8-$10k.My point was the Corvair swap would only require the motor and mount and a kennedy adaptor and clutch.Could probably be done for under $5 or if a good motor could be bought for less maybe as little as $3k for the conversion.I agree the value of a 911 6 conversion would be worth more but my point is it would only be worth the difference in cost of investment.I am not thinking of doing this conversion just wondering why it almost never comes up in the conversion threads and it seems as viable as any of the water cooled conversions with less work similar power and lower cost as well.I also thought the level of difficulty seemed a bit less than going water cooled.

And you can get a brand new in the crate 350 for less money.

You have it all figured out.......do one.......We would all like to see a build thread.

With all the experience of conversions of ALL types on this site, if the Covair was a logical and economical transplant, it would have been done.

you asked a question and your getting answers you don't seem to like or agree with.

I wanted a Porsche engine in my Porsche 914.

No I don't have it figured out and I'm not going to do a conversion.I asked a question and got some refuteable feedback so I responded accordingly.If you took the time to check out the link in the classifieds you will see this conversion already done.It might be old school and I suspect Andy is probably right but the other arguments are not good arguments.If you have something intelligent to say feel free to do so otherwise keep your negative comments to yourself.I'll buy the too rare theory but everything else was poorly advised conjecture not backed up with fact.Don't know what set you off but comments like this nobody learns from and is just plain rude.

I thought it was a good question. Not everybody relishes the idea of giving up front trunk space for a radiator (water cooled conversions).

to rare IMHO equals a small market for parts, little knowledge of how to hop them up, and any decent set of heads may set you back alot...just because few people know how to make the heads and cams really produce.

If you go with a SBC 350 or a P-6 motor...there are tons of parts and opinions on how you can spend your money to make it faster.

rich

I am too busy to read the negative comments that those without experience ALWAYS post to this subject.

The corvair power plant is cheap, can be made to give good, reliable power, is cheap to rebuild. stupid easy to plug in and convert in any air cooled, is used in home built aircraft, and the list goes on.

The answer to your question is, too many people THINK that they know about the engine and poo poo it, and it does not add any appreciable value to your car like a Porsche engine. However, a Porsche engine will always cost much more.

Corvair engines are neither rare, nor expensive. There are tons of cores for dirt cheap.

Check Clarks, Larry's, and my friends at Corvairranch in Gettysburg, PA.

I always thought it was poo pooed because it was a Corvair engine. Kinda like 911 people think of 914 owners.

My Bro in Law ran 2 Corvairs into the ground, each with over 250k miles, with only 1 head gasket as a major repair. If I were doing a car to keep and didn't care about value, it's a motor to look at.

This stuff happens too often here- somebody asks a perfectly reasonable question then everybody shoots the question down even though they do not have any experience with the matter. In this case, we were lucky because Dr. Evil does have experience. That doesn't inspire creativity

I remember seeing a post about how you never want to use scat chromoly pushrods- I asked why and all of a sudden the thread was dead.

Just my 2 cents

my answer: Ralph Nader.

Personally if I were going to put a Corvair engine in something, it would be a Corvair. Dr Evil and I went to his buddy's place (Corvairranch) and I saw a few there that had me drooling and taking pictures. My project list is too long right now, and it only has a couple of emblems and a few sets of r/c wheels on it.



Why aren't you going to do a conversion? You might have it figured it out, but you just don't realize it.

OK..........sorry

I was doing a conversion on my 914 until a 2.7 dropped in my lap for free. If it were not free I would have continued. The "free" concept is quickly lost when you factor in: mounts, hoses, tank, tins, any parts are $$$.

Ya, the reverse cam and dizzy gear are about $200, 901 adapter about $140, a mount is stupid easy to fab as the case has many mount points.

I was not dissing your question, but that seems the way you took my answer. I actually like Corvairs, the car I came home from the Hospital after being born was a Corvair.

However, you said Cores. I see core 911 engines for $500 all the time. I know people that have bought perfectly good running 3.0s for about $3k. Yes you need a mount & an oil tank, but if you want to go cheap & fabricate, it doesn't cost that much.

Of course then you have started down the slippery slope and will need some bigger brakes, more wheel & tire etc

T.C.

I built a corvair 7 years ago. It can get expensive, when you start approaching the 200hp mark. IIRC I paid over $900 just for the roller rockers. Reversing the rotation wasn't too much though (considering the monies spent on broken transaxles). The tri-port heads where big $$$$ also. Custom header, the list goes on and on, But the torque was incredible.

Ya, the engine spins in the wrong direction but there are cams and dizzy's that fix that. I happen to have had several corvairs. The engines run nice and sound sweet.

Here's one of my old vairs.

How exactly are the two quotes above "rude" or "negative" ???


It always baffles me when people ask for opinions when in reality they want confirmation of their idea(s).

And then they get all pissed when someone's opinion does not match their idea ...

I'm sure you'd get some serious double-takes with this baby in the engne bay!



One thing I can say about the 'Vair engine, is that fan makes some serious noise above 3-4Krpm! In the buggies I've ridden in (both mid-engine Deserters) the fan noise dominates all other noises at higher rpm's. Not sure about the upright fan conversion?

Unfortunately, the heads seem to the the biggest drawback. Some serious $$ needs to be spent to make the big HP numbers - especially when you go with IR intakes, slant port exhaust, P&P - Ka-ching! Plenty of hi-po parts available though.

I'm not a big fan of the Corvair fan belt set up. I always liked the cars though. When I was a kid my older sister had a boyfriend with a Monza that was covered in daisy stickers, that was very groovy.

If you like corvairs you will love this one.......3.6 porsche engine with complete C4 all wheel drive setup. porsche interior with late model porsche dash.
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Serious h.p. = what ? 300 h.p. ? Price out getting a 3.0 sc to 300 h.p. vs. a corvair to 300 h.p./ I'd bet there is little difference, possibly ALOT in favor of the corvaris.

Mike we can still convert your 914. I'd be happy to trade the labor involved for that tired old scored cylinder 2.7 p.o.s. you have

Andy you might want to reread my post.I was not referring to you my comment was dirrected at toon1 for being a smart ass.He graciously apoligised.I said you might be right and had responded with a logical answer.

I started driving Corvair turbo's in the mid 70's. Put the 6 up for the winters and drove the Corvair
.060 forged pistons and a Chevy 409 Oil Pump. Total Seal Rings and a big E-Flow turbo, Weber 2 barrel 40DCOE Carb, Water Injection.. Fun highway car.

They are known for dropping valve seats and beating them into the Piston tops and spitting the pieces down the exhaust, into the turbo. makes quite a mess.
I have seen a fix where they "stake " the valve seats into the heads though.

Stock, I don't think they turn any serious revs, around 5500 RPM.. I'm sure that could be addressed.. An upright 911 type fan would be help keep the belt on.

The setup the DR. has with the big bore VW P/C's sounds like the way to go.

Also, the 3 barrel Weber setup used 140HP big Valve heads. You machine off the existing manifolds from the heads and buy adapters. Not cheap to buy, But the machining work is nothing beyond what I have seen some members here do on a daily basis.

Cheap to buy and build compared to Porsche Engines and many parts available, including roller rockers and big turbo's.

I'm just finishing selling off the last of my Corvair Stuff.. Been holding on to it for years and I just came to the point where i'm never going to build another one.

Click to view attachment

I've got a funny, slightly OT story about a Corvair. I've always liked them, and growing up as a kid there was a local Corvair club in my town so I got to see a lot of them.....fast forward to the year just before I bought my first 914. I'm just out of college and want a fun car. Spot a 65 Corvair convertible in the paper for $2500, and decide to go take a look. The body had some rust holes, but structurally it looked sound, and body work didn't scare me at all. So I took it for a drive, and absolutely hated it. It was slower than my VW beetle at the time. I was so disappointed because I really wanted that car.

As I'm walking down the guys driveway, I turned to take one more look at the car and that's when I noticed the rear brakes were smoking.....I never disengaged the parking brake.

At that point I was too embarrassed to walk back up the driveway, so that ended my Corvair fantasies. Next up, 914's.....

dipshit.

Dion

I have 140, tri ported heads that are going on my engine. I got them for $1500 shipped. These are rebuilt, no core needed. Try that with a 911. They came with the manifolds as well, and a holley carb adapter that I dont even need.

The heads are the limiting factor. The engines after 64 are all 2.7L displacement. The 110hp had smaller valves, the 140 larger. They dropped valve seats like 2.0 TIV did. There is a proper way to install valve seats, and staking is part of the procedure.

My set up uses 94mm p/c from a TI VW. This is a modification that can cost about $1700 at a machine shop + parts. This is not what I paid, I was looking for "less" than a 911 engine. This also yielded a 3.1L engine. If I would have stayed stock p/c the cost would have been significantly less.....but where is the fun in that.

A friend of mine has a Monza with a built motor, and had the same seat issues until rebuilding both heads "correctly." The cool part is that pretty much all of the parts are dirt cheap and readily available. The motors are super easy to build as well.

He used to run around with IROC wheels and headers with short glasspacks; it turns lots of heads, but is a super obnoxious car and you need earplugs after any amount of time. Not too bad for a bunch of college kids!

Built dozens of these years ago, used mostly 140hp units, VW 94mm cylinders, a little head work, reverse rotation cam setup, extra fywl drv key... at around 3100cc they'd make an easy 250/275 HP. Don't go nuts on compression, straight blade fan, it'll work great.

I am shooting for 8.5:1, last was 8.3:1. I will post some pics here so people dont have to read my bus thread, but if you start at the back of it there are some pics.

When I am done with my truck, I am considering a corvair for the 914. I loved having mikes engine in my shop, and it is stupid cheap to do even compared to VW engines.

After reading the build thread and looking @ the pics from the car for sale in the classifieds I thought that this would be a good topic.I also thought that it looked to be a pretty simple low budget way to get 140-200hp.It also might be considerably less than building a big 4 like a 2270 with the same power potential.All of the conversions to water cooled from V8 to Subaru require considerable fabrication as does a 911-6 motor.The Corvair motor has a wet sump like a type 4 and is pretty much just a drop in with an adaptor,clutch and motor mount.For those that can't afford a 911-6 motor or don't have the fabrication skills to go to a water cooled drive train this might be a viable solution to more horsepower.With the cost of quality type 4 parts driving up the build cost to make 150 hp this could also be an alternative to a big 4.I haven't made up my mind about anything I was just asking questions that might expand my knowledge of alternative HP for the 914.I'm afraid the gene pool on this site is getting pretty stagnant.Shooting down other options without any hands on knowledge dosen't help us learn.I lurk here a lot and don't say much due to the parrots that keep reiterating the same thing over and over.The responses from The Doc,Zach,and the others that have actual knowledge of these engines and contributed in my further education of 914 conversion knowledge I thank you.

I hope I'm not listed in that group. If so, let me dig up my build thread for you... I'm certainly not anti-obscure.
You're question/statement was
And you're complaining about the answers?

You certainly got answered. Like the book "unsafe at any speed", there were answers based purely on speculation. The answer of your original inquiry seems to have presented itself not in a matter of one post explaining $$$ vs $$$ and complexity differences of different ideas that others have, but answered through a series of replies that show how different people have different interests and varying amounts of knowledge on said conversion.

Sure, it could be a good topic, if you remember some basic rules of writing:
Remember your audience.
make your goals clear.
List at least three points of validation for your ideas.

Maybe if you'd actually stated an opinion in the original post I could understand your distress at the answers you got. But you didn't; you simply asked why and then proceeded to refute answers and in at least one case you manufactured an "argument" just so you could rebut. As I read the progress of the thread it seemed that you were fishing for a debate and then were upset when you got one.

You seem to lack respect for the 'parrots' that don't share your opinion while singling out those who agree with you. From your responses, I don't think you were looking for reasons as much as a line of people to support your own, initially unexpressed, opinion. You don't seem to mind parroting, no offense Mike and Zach, if it agrees with your position. Just my not so humble viewpoint from the ripples of a stagnant gene pool.

I dont know jack about a corvair, and dont care, but I do resent the reference to this site being called a "stagnant gene pool" inhabited by parrots.

You did ask our opinions, did you not? If you wanted replies that were only from the experienced, maybe you should have stated that in your first post.

If I end up doing a conversion, it will probably be a Corvair engine. My main concern would be the width of the engine. Would the valve covers contact the suspension consuls or engine mounts? There is also the oil filter that could contact the fire wall.

-Rob

I inspected and drove the Corvair powered car in the classifieds. It was a nice running engine swap. The engine idled smoothly, had great torque, etc. Pulled hard enough to slip the clutch. Engine needed some tuning work, as it had some flat spots, pretty sure it had to do with the weird two barrel carbs into three cylinders. Could be a good swap for a driver.

The oil filter is easily relocated. Look into my bus thread. Also, there are readily available adapters that take the filter from horizontal to vertical. The width of the engine is not an issue. I dont have the exact measurements, but the corvair is either the same or smaller than the 911. I think the same as a TIV. The valves do not need periodic adjusting thanks to Chevy hyraulic lifters. Lifters that are readily available and cheap

I could easily install a vair engine into a 914 in a weekend with the parts. Maybe even a day. That includes fabricating custom cooling tin. Stupid easy.

Funny that this should come up right now because just today I found a '64 Corvair today on Craigslist, not a mile from my house. The car is trashed, but its the 164 and the whole car is $600. All I want is the motor. I'm tempted to buy it, given that the rebuild kits are well under a thousand dollars. (I know I need a reverse cam and a better carb system). Is $600 bucks worth it? I'm not sure what to spend on such a motor.

Anyway, I think that such a conversion has numerous advantages:

* Even with the fab work its still far less than a Type-4 engine rebuilt KIT.
* It's air cooled - no fabbing up water cooling rigs
* Parts are cheap and available, and the longevity is well-known
* splendid sound!
* no more valve adjustments
* its a six!

I'm surprised we don't see more of these conversions.

-m.

Were you previosly registered as Alpha or red? Responses like that are not going to help you in the least. I thought most of the replies were good, it's too bad you don't have an open mind to consider them. The way you are going, if you do a project, you might end up with 2 or 3 people helping you out.

If I was going to do a conversion of this type.. I'd buy a 65 and up 140HP motor for a carb motor or a factory turbo motor as a starting point because you get the Hardened Crank and the big valve heads and the proper distributor with the right curve built in on the 140 HP and the turbo also has the hardened crank and the sodium filled exhaust valves and pressure retard distributor. You would probably be looking for some of those parts for any motor you built, so why not get them all at once. The 65 and up had the bigger stroke crank also. I'd Do the 3.1 Big Bore setup too. Big oil pump is easy also. And make sure whoever does the valve seats knows the issues with them.

What about flipping the R/P in the transmission instead of reversing the engine rotation ?? I know VW guys had been doing that for years. ???? just asking ??

the helical cut of the gears is going the wrong direction and it wouldn't be able to handle as much power.

What????? The 901 was designed for the R/P to run in that direction (911). It's the 914 that runs it backwards!

You're not following the line of power quite right. The R&P is flipped AFTER the gear stack. The gear stack still rotates the same direction with the 911. With the Corvair engine the gear stack would be rotating the other direction. It's the helical cut of the gear stack that I was referring to, not the helical cut of the R&P.

Ya, the engine turning the wrong way will always turn the gears and diff the wrong way. You can flip the diff to get the car to move forward, but this is still going to be whilst the guts are turning backwards = bad. It is easy to change the cam and dizzy gears to reverse the engine.

I am thinking that I will start a corvair information thread, this one has too much anger in it. No name calling is ever going to help.