After hearing Mr Zois' new car, watching Rich build the alien, seeing the new guy with the white conversion (I cant believe I am going to say this) I have really been drawn to a V8 conversion. I know the sound quality wasn't great, but I did not expect the purple car to sound that smooth and, quite frankly, pissed off. The Martini car has a nicely built 4 banger in it - it runs strong. As you all have seen in my posts, I have tried so hard to make it "right" - (I have even recently been shopping around - thinking of replacing my new Renegade seats with Konig or Scheel) - but it is still a 4 banger. If I were to do an install that was in keeping with how clean the car is currently, would it make it any less of a car?

Man, I am really digging these V8 cars....

Been wondering the same stuff

Not so much would it make my car less of a car, since mine is nowhere near the same league as Scott's, but as a general principal, ya can't help but wonder. Further, is there a loss of the handling greatness we all love so much about these cars with the addition of all the weight?

Waiting with baited breasts to hear the experience of others.

I too have been thinking the same. I plan to start collecting parts, and when my 4 finally gives up the ghost, I'm going to convert. From what I have read, depending on what engine you use, the weight isn't much more than a 4, probably comparable to a 6. If you use a small block chebby with aluminum heads, I think it's right around the same weight as a 6. Get an aluminum block, and you're probably getting pretty light.

Plus, they're easy and cheap to work on. Almost everybody knows how to work on a 350. Having around 300 reliable horse power would be that cats ass! If you do it, take lots of pictures so you can show me how!

What's the main reason you guys are considering an 8, versus a 6?

just more power? or is the Cost a big factor also?


just curious

Were our own best salesmen. Nothing in life comes easy or cheap. Scot if you touch the Martini car I'll!!!..... Well maybe I won't. Buy a roller and start over. Do the 5 bolt, the brakes, the hell holes, the paint, the conversion. and have two of the best cars ever. I can't give you a fair comparison. I don't really remember what my 4 cylinder drove like. All I remember is I couldn't shift it, it would stop, and the stock injected 1.7 had very little performance.

I installed new bushings in the shift linkage, still couldn't shift it. A clutch adjustment took care of that.

The brakes are way better with BMW 4 pots and a "T" fitting. I have brake dust on my rear wheels!

The 300+ hp "S" motor fixed the lazy hp problem but I'm not sure it didn't create some new ones. We'll see.....

Scott, if you replace the renegade seats, call me first I may know a good home for them...

I decided GM V8 in the late 70's because it was a new idea and made practical sense. Now it is a very developed conversion and many people have done them. The brute power in a well built 400hp V8 914 is intoxicating.

I'm actually leaning to newer technology like the Boxster motor conversion that Jason has started...

Si', Mas. Mucho Mas. As much as I love the way my 1.7 runs lately, I get tired of eating dust from the average grocery getter at every stop.

My unconsidered uninformed knee jerk thought has been if I'm gonna make the swap, I should get the most power I can

If, on the other hand, there is a benefit to going 6 instead of 8, I'd think about that too. I guess those are the sorts of things I'd like to hear about from those who know.



See, now that would bring me WAY down. Spend all that time any $ and then be disappointed with the results, I'd be goofey pissed.

If you ever decide that you want to do that, You can drop off your v8 conversion package at my door!

Andrew

seems like the complaints about doing the 8 are that it's a heavier package.


and now your 914 is powered by a chebby

For me cost is the biggest factor. Plus, I recall Brad saying after driving an 8 that he didn't know why anybody would do a 6 conversion when the 8s are cheaper and more powerful, or something like that anyway. I figure that pretty much everything Brad says is gospel, and I'm cheap. Those are my two reasons.

Makes the car heavyer.. yes.. Nothing a little fiberglass bumpers, trunks, and striping the car cant fix!

A 914 is powered by a chebby is better than powered by a vw!


Andrew

if you are on the fence...then DO NOT drive one !!!! .....it's like crack and you will be hooked...


Carlberg,

I "think" I got the Megasquirt figured out, it could have been something as simple as not washing off the residual flux off of the board, I'll find out this weekend when I attept to install it on the car.



......you can install a running junk yard Chevy 350 out of an old station wagon that only cost a few hundred bucks and it'll be a total blast to drive....

hands down, the V8 conversion is the best-bang-4-the-buck to double your horsepower (at a minimum) ...yes, one can spend thousands or even 10's of thousands of dollars on a V8 conversion, but the starting point is the cheapest to get into...........best of all, if done correctly, it's a reversible conversion, but I doubt many will give it for another /4 or a /6



I'm srue he could drop it off to you this weekend.....cash talks

do you know who is "complaining" ???

the people that DO NOT OWN a converted car or that ever driven a properly built or sorted out one............

Ohhhhhh,

Thems fightn words round here!!!!

Lucky enough to have both a 2.0 injected four and a box stock 350. This is all subjective, of course. 350 is heavier, but not by much. Weight distribution about the same, as any weight added to middle rear is compensated by radiator and coolant up front.

Biggest difference? Both cars 'set' about the same way entering a turn: initial understeer transitioning to corrective (and then some) oversteer with throttle. But the V8 carries its weight much higher, so esses require more planning than the 4. My V8 just doesn't 'toss' as well.

But all 914's are easy to drive. A type IV is easier to drive faster longer than an 8, but the 8 sure gets your attention exiting the turn. The sound?. Except for an F1 shriek or 12 cylinder Italian opera, I think a small block V8 on the pipe is the best. 360 Modenas and 57 FI Corvettes play great tunes. Don't want to get drummed out of the club, but aircooled 4's sound like aircooled 4's. All but a few 6's sound like they are grinding coffee.

As was said, every town has an SBC guru who does not charge $100 per hour, and a whole new engine costs $1200 from Mr. Goodwrench. And you now are accepted in every group, from non PCA Porsches to steet rods to Harley's. Ricers gasp. Everyone will think you're crazy to drive one of these.

my .02

It seems like the "problem" with the V8 conversion is the transmission. Our 901s are weak. To do it right, you need to go with the 930 turbo transmission which adds on another $6K to the project.

One of the nicest v8 conversions I've seen had a buick/rover 215ci aluminum block. The other way to go would be to build a high reving v8 specifically for a 914 - that wouldn't be cheap.

In the end a v8 or flat 6 conversion will cost close to the same but the v8 will have gobs more power and will probably be a new engine whereas your six will be an 80K mile engine from a donor car.

i think this is misleading and could be said as well if one puts a big /6 in thier car they "have to have" a 915 or a 930 gear box....it's all about how you drive.......the size of the tires make a differance as well...skinny tires could be considered a "saftey" item since they will break loose instead of transmitting too much of a load on the transmisson

the stock transmissions will work if care is taken....just because you have a V8 in the car does not mean that every single time you take off from a stop light you are going to dump the clutch at 6000 rpm.

what is nice with these conversions (and I guess the same could be said with a /6) is that you could always start off with just the very basics and when time/money is available, you can upgrade. There seems to be no shortage of people willing to buy used conversion parts.

Stock trannies will work but the gearing is way wrong. You don't want to be cruising down the freeway at 4K rpms with a v8. My point is that a v8 conversion is not a cheap conversion. Sure you can do a V8 cheap with junkyard parts but I think the quality of the parts in the end will reflect the quality of the ride. Either way you'll end up spending a lot of money. You'll just have tons more power with a v8.

Andrew,
I will start with another 914, not my Chalon bodied 914. I already have many ideas to redesign and update the body where my interest/talent lies. I'll let Jason (and Brad) sort out the Boxster conversion details...
Felix

Man you guys are reading my mind. I have had this exact 4/6/8 conversion crap on my mind for the last 6 months. The Subie sounds cool, I like the Nissan conversion that is on the board, but the 8 sounds like the one for me. Seems like you can pick up the 8 conversions complete at a decent price. That was a great deal on the purple car.

If I did it myself I think I'd have to start fresh with a new roller. I just couldn't cut holes in my current front wheel wells.

Maybe problem was the wrong word.... New challanges! Ya!

Ah, you're a good man Rich.

Attitude is everything.

I think Howard slightly understated the difference between the two cars (2.0 vs. 350). From my perspective, a 350 V8 powered 914 verges on supercar performance (in the accelleration dept.). Of course to bring it to supercar status, you'd need to requisite suspension, tire, and brake upgrades, but you get the picture. To me, it's a way different car than a stock 2.0. Even a mild V8, say a 283, will still get your attention. Point being, you don't have to go whole hog with a big expensive high performance V8 et al, to get some pretty impressive performance. There are plenty of mild V8 cars running around with 2002/Volvo brakes, 901's, and bus axles that didn't cost a mint to build. I think the fellow out in Arizona that does conversions and parts suggests a similar approach as an initial starting point. Build it any way you want..........If you prefer the 1.8/2.0 package, that's cool too.

BTW, I'm going to put a tape measure to a 1.8 Turbo Passat/Audi. I still think dropping in both the motor and trans into the 914 would be a really sweet package. Tiptronic trans is available too. Anyone know what the going prices are for a '97 & up Passat 1.8T motor/trans? Though I'm doing the V8, this still intrigues me.

Andy

Andy, you're dead right on this. According to eBay ads, all 350's have between 300 and 400hp. 'Course all CA 914's are rust free, too. Flash!!! A standard 350 has ~210hp and 330lb/ft of torque. My 901 handles that without issues, but I don't dump the clutch @ 3500rpm, either.

This setup does not qualify as a supercar, but 330lbs/ft does tend to propel a 2200lb car in lively fashion. It's no faster, and doesn't handle as well as prepared 3.2 6, but does cost less to build and maintain.

You can turn a 914-8 into a supercar with a 500hp small block, updated suspension, brakes, and vehicle dynamics. Add A/C, power windows, locks, ABS, skid control, ltd slip and a killer stereo.

I don't believe it would be better than a new Carrera, but it sure would cost as much. And on a nice day, with the top off, I have just as much fun in either of my cars. Rich has the attitude; these aren't just cars. They're therapy, entertainment and a little challenging sometimes.

I think it is all well said. The car is not a driver for me, its therapy, a hobby, something to kill my time with and have a little fun. I dont know about Howards car, but my car with the engine in it will only tip the scales by about 2100 pounds. Of course, the whole body on mine has been replaced with fiberglass. In reference to someone saying 6k for a 930 transmission, I am glad I dont know where he is buying from, that is about 3500.00 more than I can get them for all day long. I am building another engine and transmission combo for my car for next year or so. It will use the 930 gearbox ad about 475 HP. Now that, will be an "E" ticket.

Too many warm fuzzy's around here, so I'll interject an opposing opinion. You have to decide what you want to do with your car. I considered 8 conversions when I was looking for a car. I wanted to race and I'm glad I didn't get one. I've yet to see a 914-8 that is competitive on the track. Now if you just want to cruise and make an impression leaving stop lights that's cool. I love the sound of my engine and I'm glad it wasn't built by GM to power a station wagon.

The 901 in stock config is terrible for a V8914. Re-Gearing a 901 will cost you several thousand if a proper rebuild is done at the same time (and you still have a 4 speed) Weigh this out over a low mileage 930 conversion that doesnt need rebuilt/re-geared and the 930 box quickly becomes the choice.

Hands down the V8 conversion yields more "smiles per hour" than any other conversion done to our cars. It simply cannot be beat when it comes to maintence/cost. It will however run you close to the same amount to convert to a Porsche 6 or V8. Figure 12-14k if you use a nice GM crate engine with aluminum heads and pay to have it done with a 901 box.

DO NOT attempt your own radiator setup. Pay the bucks and buy the Renegade radiator.


B

How about just buy one. Even if it's done wrong (mine needed a new engine) it's far cheaper than doing it yourself unless you REALLY do it yourself.

Drew, there is no substitute, but here we're talking about a street car.

Brad, my car with stock gears and 265/50 rears 3200=75mph (GPS). Still too much, but believe 245/70's will fit. If so, that will drop revs by 10%, but these are SUV tires, not racers.

Scott, you ever going to get that POS running? Weigh it when you're done.. I'm still on hold waiting for you....

I had a "TERRBLE!" 383 one... I would like a nice one..

Need a 66-67 327.



M

Dont leave out the turbo 6 conversion option, it works for me.

umm.... Chappy... uuuuhh... when did you do that?




M

YA! YOUR HOLDNG OUT ON US! I'm coming down ther and checkin that beast out!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act...t=8438&hl=turbo

couple months ago..

Andrew

You're shoveling sand against the tide, Drew. These guys don't wanna actually go fast......they wanna think they're fast.

6ers uber alles (sorry if I spelt than wrong, Andy)

Interesting views by all. My V8 conversion was put on the road about two years ago. Drove it for a while with a slightly hopped up 2.0L and really enjoyed it. Plan from day one of my '73 914 purchase was to go V8. I had the same question back then, "am I crazy"?

Having owned a few Porsches over the years (including a 911), I wanted to play the game again, but this time eliminate some of the hassles, expence and fears. Oil leaks really get me down and something every Porsche that I have seen with any age will have. The expence to overhaul one (4 or 6) can go without saying. Issues with valve seat failure and timing chain tensioners are bad memories from the past. I wanted this project and engine selection to be fun, dependable and require little maintenance when completed.

As Howard mentioned, engine sound is important to us gear heads. The 4 was OK in my book, the 6 sounded better and "natural" in a 914. This was a big concern for me when choosing the V8. The sound had to be right for my project. I did not want to end up with a station wagon engine and slap on a set of cherry bombs. Adding headers to same engine was not what I was after either. Even a stock muscle car engine did not have the sound I was after. What did capture my attention was what a massaged muscle car engine with quiet exhaust sounded like. The right cam, compression and exhaust can completely turn the sound of a V8 around.

Junkyard engines were looked at as well as brand new crate engines. Too much risk to accept with the 100's I viewed at junkyards, although the cost was appealing. The $800 and up engines came with 30 day warranties but I knew my car would not be on the road in time to take advantage of this. I doubt I would have went this route if I had a 36 month warranty given all the things that could go wrong with a used engine.

From what I researched, the high performance crate engines were designed to apply torque right off the line and would destroy my 901 is short order. Having a brand new high performance GM engine (ZZ4) was my number one choice but issues with the 901 turned me away from it.

Having decided to go with Renegade Hybrids to supply my kit, the subject of engine selection came up when talking with Scott. He gave me another option and told me about his engine builder in California and some of the advantages in going this route. He had experience in building V8's for Porsches and understood the importance of getting the torque applied corrrectly when bolted up to the 901. We discussed what I was after relative to sound, weight, dependability and the fact my car would eventually end up with a/c and be used mostly on the street. After several discussions with Wild Bill over the phone, I felt convinced he knew what he was doing. Thought shipping a engine to the other side of the coast would be a obstacle but Bill handled crating and delivery to my door. Not the cheapest way to stuff a V8 into a 914 but exactly what I wanted. Engine was complete from top to bottom. Bill bench flowed carb for my altitude, had set timing and it fired right up as soon as gas hit the cylinders. No tweaking, adjustments or leaks. I was impressed!! Spent 20 minutes breaking in cam and then hit the road for a 50 mile trip over to some friends who had been following my project for months.

My 901 was rebuilt (stock) prior to bolting up the V8 but something I worried about for many months after putting car on road. I babied it at first and eventually abused it on occasion. How can you resist with 400hp on tap? It has held up fine to date and I have since resisted popping the clutch at really high rpm to avoid maintenance. This is not a drag car and feel the 901 can be made to survive using common sence. The gear ratios could be improved as Brad mentioned but for me it is tolerable for the amount of money invested in the 901. Would love to have a 930 but can't justify dropping $6000 into one just to have "bullet proof" and 700 or so less rpm at cruise speed. Afterall, at $200-300 to replace my 901, it's hard to justify.

Driving: Weight has been discussed by many but I really don't see this as a issue for a street car. I'm not a race car driver and see no real change in the way the car feels with the V8 for my driving style. I did use aluminum heads, moved battery to front and feel the balance is fine. What is different with the extra power is how fast things can change when pedal is pushed to floor. Proper application of power has to be learned and is totally differant than when operating with 80 or so horsepower. You must be ready to change gears quicker, apply brakes with more athority and be prepared to get thrown around in the seat when pushing things. It's hard to explain in words the driving impression of a v8 powered 914. I guess the best I can come up with is that one has to pay attention and be ready to respond quicker with the extra power on tap.

The project has been well worth it for me. All my shop time has been spent reburbishing and none on maintenance. This is really important to me as I spent my younger years wrenching on cars every weekend just to keep them running.

Cheap? No, but I knew the choices made up front were going to cost more to get the end product I was after. I'm almost at the end of project. A/C was added just a few months ago and this has been one of the best accessories added to car to date. Heat and humidity in my area almost make driving a black/black car unbearable in the summer. I'm driving it every chance I get now and feel really confident that it can make any road trip I care to make. Trunk is not filled with tools necessary for roadside repairs any longer and I'm enjoying it now more than ever.

There are many opinions out there when talking V8's in 914s. This has been my experience. Am I crazy? Hell yeah. I think that everytime I go for a drive. I have the same question when I think about how much $$$ I've dumped into this one. Worth every nickle though.

John

Huh??? Because we aren't really concerned about how a conversion impacts the car on a track? A conversion would probably not do very well on Mars either, but since my car would spend as much time there as it would on a track, that don't bother me much either

John, thanks for taking the time to express your experience. That was really helpful.
You know, I'd love to do some exotic twin plug 6 set up (I think we all would), but in mowing my property the last serveral times, I have looked carefully at each tree, and none of them have $10 bills where the leaves are supposed to be. If I can get a similar experience for a lot less $ with an 8, I'd like to know what those who have experience in this area think. Frankly, the criicism that an 8 is inferior somehow because there are V8 stationwagons in the world seems pretty thin and misplaced to me. On the other hand, if a waterpumper conversion so dramitically changes the 914 experience that it is lost, that would suck too.

John's post was precisely the type of experienced opinion I was hoping to hear. Thanks. BTW VERY nice car. I hate you.

Anybody out there who did a conversion who was sorry they did it?

Atta boy, John!
It's just therapy.
Rich

If you hate John, you will hate Rich Brennick as well. He has an amazing conversion car. Come on Rich! Could you share some pics with the class?

Thanks, Chris. Certainly not as nice as some of the cars I've seen on this forum.
Here's a dirty one, but my plate might help share the emotion of a high-winding 283 in a 914.
Regards,
Rich

I still got some that you sent me..

nother

Nice clean conversion you have Chris. Very Impressive. I hope mine looks as good when it's done. I'm going a slightly different route with the 20b engine but I expect to be happy with the results when it's done. It will probably cost me a bit more than what a V8 conversion would (not counting the Alien 928). I went this way because I understand the engine, can get it rebuilt relatively cheaply, it makes decent power and I love the way it sounds. Pretty much the same reasons given for a v8 transplant. Here is a sound clip:

3 Rotor Sound Clip

That is what it sounds like sitting still. Add the whistle of the twin turbos and it's music to my ears. I did consider an LS1 but the cost of the engine and the apparent difficulty of the install were enough to convince me to go a different route. I even had purchased a Toyota 3SGTE engine for the car but ended up selling it in favour of the 3 rotor. At least with the rotary and V8 options you have a market for the adapter plates if/when you decide to go with something different. Doubtful that the market would be very lucritive for a used 3SGTE to 915 adapter.

I wish that was mine solo. It's Rich Brennick's though. All this v-8 talk has caused me to visit the jpeg archive. I'm all worked up! Gotta have a v-8!

ps, that 3 rotor sounds tough!

So, I spent a good hour in the garage and on the phone figuring this whole thing out/getting prices, etc.... then it hit me. Cant do it. The PO of my car put the damn 916 bumpers on my car, and when he/she/it did so they blended them into the body. They did a good job - no cracks anywhere - it is just not my personal taste. this being the case, cutting the front open will be quite the ordeal and will most likely crack the bumper, as bot it and the steel underneith would have to be cut at the same time. If that bumper gives, I sure as hell am not going to put it back - which means body work and a repaint of the nose. If there is not a 916 bumper on the front, then I sure dont want one on the back - so now we are in for a full repaint, plus the cost of GT bumpers. I am gonna pass - at least on buidling a v8 on this particular car.
Here is the kicker - I took the car in pre flare/Martini junk to have the nose touched up. For $500 the guy promised he could match it. Well, he couldn't, so he said he would paint the entire car - still for 500.00. I went over and dis-assembled the rear end and removed all of the rubber/etc. In hind site, I should have taken it home, bashed off those bumpers and had it done to my liking. I, of course, realized this AFTER I brought it home from being painted...... crap.

Scott,

Not sure if you've seen how Renegade installs their radiator/shroud, but thought I'd show some install pics taken during my installation. Not sure how your GT bumper is attached but have some idea based on other pics I've seen here.

Maybe this will reconfirm or deny your suspisions.

Sorry for picture quality. These are pre digital camera purchase and are actually 35mm photos layed out and shot over again using a $200 Sony digital.

John

Not the best view of how shroud attaches to front bulkhead but it is positioned into place and pop riveted into place. I riveted from the out (front) side but see no reason it could not be done from inside.

forgot pic

adsdf

Using the GT bumper, your hole may be located lower than mine and reason for concern. I would use nothing more than a cutting disk (staying away from any type of blade) to perform this surgery.

John